Hotrodder

Are Swivel fittings ok to use in a brake system?

WildCard600

Sounds sketchy.

Hotrodder

https://www.summitracing.com/int/par...3erl/overview/

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Doesn't look like a swivel to me.

That said, there's no NPT fittings in brake systems. For good reason.

8Mike9

Just have to twiddle it between the thumb and index finger.

Hotrodder

Well, it is. I have 2 pcs.
And the enclosed link describes it as a swivel.

And Wilwood calipers use 1/8 NPT inlet fittings.
https://www.wilwood.com/Calipers/CaliperListLanding

OrangeBird

iTrader: (1)

Since it seems to me that "swivel fittings ok ?" looks like more of a question than a statement , why are you asking us , not getting the answer you want to hear , and are now on a crusade to "convince" us that it's OK to use them ?

If they aren't specifically sold as brake system components (I looked at your link in post #4 and NO WHERE did it say those fittings are for use with brakes) then no , sorry , I wouldn't use them anymore than I'd use so called "compression fittings" which may also physically fit on the lines but aren't rated nor apporved for brake service either .

Your car , your call , but if you do use them I'm kinda glad your halfway around the world in Norway , it won't be my car you'll be hitting if your brake kludge decides to let go at the wrong moment . So , would you mind telling the board WHY you are SO bent on using these , when a few BILLION cars in the world get by just fine without such odd , , , modifications , to their braking systems ?

Hotrodder

Calm down.

I have never posted anything on this forum that wasn't of any Third Gen interest. Go thru all my posts and see for yourself.
My brakes have GM Metric calipers. Same as many of you have on your cars.
I have changed to Wilwood "direct replacement" aluminum calipers that turned out to be not very direct replacement after all. Maybe nice to know for some third gen owners thinking of doing the same?

When positively wrong statements are done like the one about NPT fittings, I thought it was important for other readers to inform about that.
Don't you?

But by all means, if the moderator think this thread don't have any Thirg Gen relevance, just ask him to remove it.
And if you think I don't belong in here, just get me blocked off.
No problem.

OrangeBird

iTrader: (1)

OK , since you presented your point well , I deleted the angry portion of my post . Just know that lots of people come here trying to convince the board (and themselves) that this or that modification is a great idea , and usually the idea is not a good one . I must admit I kinda took offence to what appeared to be your scoffing at the advice the guys gave you , It's easy to get riled when someone asks a question and then gets all pissy about the answer they receive .

Now , with that ugly business out of the way , I'd truly like to know what benefit/advantage you are trying to gain with the use of the swivel fittings rather than using standard brake fittings/hardware ?

Hotrodder

No problem.

Long story short:
The standart GM calipers have M10 banjo bolt inlet fitting. The wilwood calipers have 1/8 NPT.
That roules out the banjo, since there are no such thing as a 1/8 NPT banjo bolt.
I first tried a mala-male 1/8NPT - 3AN adapter fitting. This is pointing straigth down / 90 degree wrong compated to the banjo attachement
So I attached a 3AN hose with a 90 degree end to get it correct.

This combination hangs too low down (excuse my bad english) and the hard part of the hose interfer with the lower A arm at full turn.
So what I'm doing now is basically searching for an alternative solution.
I won't be using the swivel fitting.
Some said that the swivel will be locked when the fitting is fastened properly, If so, I wouldnt have worried about it.
But it doesn't.

I have a couple of new ideas. Haven't given up yet....

OrangeBird

iTrader: (1)

Now I understand , It's a clearance problem of the calipers VS the lower A arms , Thank You for explaining that . If I may offer a suggestion you might try posting up some good clear pictures of the problem area , a lot of guys here have built a lot of custom cars and perhaps one of us may see something we've encountered before and have an answer based on what we see .

PS , your English is fine , dare I say you present your point as well as any native English speaking person I've seen posting here . If your sig didn't say Norway I'd have never guessed English isn't your native language !

WildCard600

I was not aware that Wilwood used NPT threads for their fittings. I guess I can cross them off the list now.

Hotrodder

Thanks for that!

Here's some photos:

This is how it is with the standard iron GM caliper - And this works fine, even if it might looks kind of tight on the photo. This has worked for 6 years and there are no wear marks on the brake hose. Have in mind that the springs & shocks are at the top in these photos



And this is how it looks like with the NPT to AN3 adapter, plus a 90 degree end AN3 brake hose. The bend comes too low down (red arrow) and hits the lower A-arm at full turn.
It's not an alternative to make the bend closer to the fitting, because then the hard line bend will interfere with the sliding pin (blue arrow) and make it neccessary to loosen the brake fitting every time the sliding pin needs to be taken out.


And this is how I wish it would be possible to do it:
On this photo I have fastened a 90 degree 1/8 NPT male to 3/8-24 IFF female adapter, but there is not such an adapter as a 3/8-24 IFF male to 3AN male adapter, to connect the fitting to the hose.



I might have a plan. I will come back to it later, but if you have some opinions or ideas, please let me know!

OrangeBird

iTrader: (1)

My initial thought upon seeing your pictures would be to run a hard line (solid not flexible metal tubing) from the caliper to some other place on the spindle assembly where there would be more room and better angles to couple it to the flexible line . It would require fabricating a good solid mounting point on the spindle arm assembly to hold the union of the metal / flexible connection securely so that the flexible hose does all the flexing , but I believe relocating where the flexible line meets the solid line would solve the interference issue .

8Mike9

I think that's a bad idea, a hard line on a pivoting assembly? You might be the first to try it, I wouldn't.

OrangeBird

iTrader: (1)

No , you misunderstood my post , the hard line remains attached to the spindle arm assembly and the flexible line is the only thing that bends . The union between the hard line and the soft line is anchored to the spindle assy so that of course the hard line doesn't see any flexing as the spindle moves to steer .

RT66ProTouring

iTrader: (2)

The problem I see is that the NPT to AN adapter you linked is aluminum and I'd be concerned about the pressure rating. You would definitely want to confirm that beforehand.

Hotrodder

The NTP to AN adapter wont be used. I didn't like the swivel function. And besides that it will interfer with the lower slide bolt, so It's out of the question.

Hotrodder

I understand, and I have thought about that, yes.
And the black painted bolt right above the brake hose at the lower photo would be possible to attach a small bracket on to. It would make it a bit more complicated to loosen the caliper for pad change, tow.

Here's a plan that I intend to try:
Harley Davidson sportster has, as the only one I know of, 3/8-24 threaded brake caliper banjo bolts.
The female threads on the brass fitting in my lowest photo is 3/8-24 IF.
So, the Sportster banjo boolts will fit rigth on.

There are 2 possible problems:
1. The thread engagement will be sligtly less than what it is on the Harley caliper. It's possible to increase the engagement a bit by drilling out the 45 degree cone at the bottom of the fitting (yes, I will remove the fitting from the caliper bedfore drilling!)
I use the same solution on my adjustable brake propotion valve. It have worked for 6 years. After market Corvette shops actually sell a kit to change from 45 degree double flare fittings to banjo bolts on the Corvette C3 master cylinder because of very limited space.

2. The amount of machined area for the banjo copper washers to be pressed against, around the 3/8-24 hole on the brass fitting is limited. To ensure a good seal for the washers, I have ordered 9 mm washers instead of 9,5 mm (3/8") washers. The smaller washers wil be a tight fit on the 3/8" bolt and hopefully seal even better than the more roomy 3/8" washers. If this don't work, I have some 10 mm washers on the shelf.
I will also red-heat the washers before mounting. This will make them sligtly softer and increase the seal even better ( I cool them down a bit before mounting, but the heat process will still have soften them).

Hotrodder

Update:
Looks like I've found the solution.
AN3 male to 3/8-24 IF male adapter.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/AN3-3AN-3AN....c100290.m3507

91ls1t56

A so they make a caliper drilled and tapped with a pipe thread and don't have fittings to work with their own products ? Sounds a bit fishy. How about pulling off that set of calipers and drilling and tapping them to accept a banjo bolt ? A few years back I got some 10 x 1.5 stainless banjo bolts from brakequip.