you all think a custom excessive amperage 200 amp alternator with a 31 series yellow top optima battery is going to be enough to run my msd ignition and my nine.1 daily at 1 ohm? i've got serious problems with my cheap-o autozone battery and 105 amp (obviously)
enough where i can be on the interstate at 2200 rpm, the bass will hit and it'll literally drop to 800 and the car will jerk. if im sitting stopped, the amps drop down almost to the red, under 10. dont think im going to need to go bigger than 200 do you?

 

doubtful. Have you upgraded you under hood wiring? While that amp could cause the lights to dim it won't cause that much havoc. Before you spend money do a search on the big 3 and do that first.

 

What he said... do the big three first, that will help you drastically. Especially since our cars are rather old to begin with. When purchasing an aftermarket alternator, always check the amps at idle. A lot of times, ho alts will produce more output at high rpm's, but when it comes to idle rpm's, they'll produce the same, or sometimes less than your stock alternator. It doesn't help to go cheap, either. A lot of people just figure they're getting a deal, and then in the end, they're really not. Also, see if you can't find one with some sort of warranty. If the big three doesn't help you as much as you would like it to... go ahead an get the alternator and battery. You should definitely be good to go then...
G'luck!

 

i've already done the alternator to battery in 4 gauge, though i didnt fuse it. my battery negative to block was already 4 gauge. havent done the ground at the rear of my heads to chassis yet though since its such a pita to get to, but i've noticed little to no difference in what i've done so far. how vital is it to have that alternator to positive fused, and about what fuse should i be using?

 

and you meant its doubtful that i'll need more than the 200 amp, or doubtful it will be enough?

 

You shouldn't need a 200 amp alt. Take your ground right from the neg on the battery and go to the body, this will give you a better connection. The battery will probably need to be done if its an older battery or just to small for the demand. Keep in mind the battery is what supplies the majority of the power not the alt, the alt just keeps the battery charged.

 

The battery provides starting power and power when the engine isn't running. The alt provides the power the rest of the time.

200 amps will be plenty, your wiring is the biggest bottleneck.

 

is that all i need to change, just put the negative battery ground to the body, and leave the heads grounded to the chassis the way they are? i looked on the back of my heads, and it looks like both of them are grounded. the one on the drivers side i could barely even get my hand on, the passenger side i could do in 4 gauge without too much trouble. i've already ordered and paid for the yellow top 31 and the 200 amp, but i might as well improve what i can until they get here so im not stuck somewhere with a car that wont start. going to go redo the passenger head ground now, i'll wait on the battery til i hear back from you.
the main reason i ordered the 200 amp is i wanted to leave room to upgrade in the future, im thinking i'll either get a second nine.1, or sell mine and get an orion 2500d to run 2 brahma 15's.

 

excessive amperage isnt cheap lol
just got in on a group buy at caraudio.com and ended up getting a 315 dollar alternator for about 250

 

with a 200 amp and a yellow top you should be good. Ive never heard of a system drawing so much it bucks the car. I mean Ive got a 92 caddy and Im running 600 watts RMS with my stock battery/alternator and it runs fine. No light dimming, Nothing.

Maybe it could be a whole different issue?

 

duno, im running an underrated 1200 watt amp at 1 ohm daily, and a second amp, these nine.1's are known to produce in excess of 1400 watts with a good charging system. and im using a cheapo autozone battery that looks to be pretty old, with a stock 105 amp alternator. either way, i doubt i'll have any problems once my new alt and battery get here.

 

be VERY cautious with running an over-powering alternator because most cars arents made to handle that kind of power. I used to work at an auto store and people thought that by upgrading there alternator they would be well off with audio systems. Well, what happened was they blew every fuse and they had more headaches then that of what they had with the stock alternator because most cars arent setup to run that kind of amps. So..be cautious..

 

ahh... what can be done about it? probably isnt good to just use bigger fuses all around huh? is there some sort of voltage regulator or something that could keep it from giving too much?

 

well I would sort out your main problem first. Install the battery/alternator and see how it goes. Dont worry about things until they happen. You have a capacitor yet? Running two amps it might also be a good idea since car batteries dont provide juice for the short periods that subwoofers hit that lower your volts.

Let us know when you have everything in and tell us how it all goes.

 

dont think im going to be needing a cap until i do get the second amp, or the one monster. that's a ways off, probably at least a year.

 

As long as you run the amps power wire to right to the battery the vehicles electrical system will not pull any more current then with the stock alternator (grounds upgraded). They where ether installing the alt. incorrectly or they where being sold bad alts.
I'm going to agree that it sounds like you're having other problems. The nine.1 shouldn't be causing these kind of problems. Have you check the batt voltage with the system running at idle? And not with the dash meter but with a real meter?

 

i'm going to have to agree. i'm running a 100 amp alternator, one industrial yellow top and 3 kicker amps all a little over 1,000 max a piece and no issues so far.

i had a high 140 amp alternator on my last motor and barely noticed anything worth the money so this time i left it stock. i also had two yellow top batteries with my last ppi/jl stereo system which was only 3 10 w6's, 2 2150's and a 4100 art series. while it had no troubles optima told me it was pointless to run so many batteries so i switched back to one.

in all honesty i'm sure i'm lucky if they hit half of what their max rating is at normally. the grounds and power wires are all directly attached to the battery which is in the rear of the car and so far so good. i have yet to do a death match test with them though..

good luck with your problem.

 

well i mean u already bought the alt./battery which is always a good thing to have upgraded those. But your issue seems like something else... Maybe your current alternator or battery is bad or somewhere in your electrical is bad.

Good luck

 

no i got the major problems, with the jerking and all sorted out a few days ago. after i did all the underhood wiring in 4 gauge it almost went away, doesnt drop under 10 anymore and thats only on real punchy, 60 hz and higher bass. would think it would take more power to throw it on that ultra low take your breath away bass but it barely moves the power gauge on the stuff that hits the hardest. im pretty sure once i get the new alt and battery in i'll be good to go. thanks yall

 

Your amp still cutting out?

 

yeah but still 105 amp and old battery. work tomorrow then im off til thursday, should have the battery in by then. not sure about the alternator, couple weeks maybe. i did set my gains with a dmm though and it doesnt do it as much without clipping but still does on really hard hitting songs.

 

I have a TPI camaro and the whole car came with power everything, power door locks, power windows, a/c, etc etc. I had a 108 amp alternator that couldn't keep up with the electrical demand, especially with the heat down here in texas, and the 500watt amp and all the other stuff going on. I got me a CS144 140 amp alternator with a harness to connect that old connector with the new one on the CS style alternator. I then ran a 4 Gauge JL Audio fine stranded copper wire with gold terminals from the alternator directly to the battery. This thing handles the electrial demands with ease, and i can really feel the energy hitting the ignition system and it has boosted the performance of the engine.
Also if you havent done so, you should have an amp kit with sufficient guage hooked up directly to the battery and connected properly for multiple amps. After you have a sound battery and stout alternator, and it still cant take the demand. You really need to think about capacitor(s), they act as line conditioners easing the instantaneous demand for electricity by acting almost as an additional battery.
If you want to, the car audio places have fuses and circuit breakers that are very high amperage that you can install in line from the alternator to the battery and from the amp to the battery.

CS144 Conversion Cost $40 Alt/$15 harness/$10 wiring.

 

You keep saying that the alternator got "down to 10amp"... how the heck are you checking this? Did you mean volts, and not amps?

I have that exact same amp, along with another 640wrmsA/B 4ch amp... along with that same yellowtop... I don't even have upgraded starter/alternator wires... I have NO light dimming whatsoever. 1AWG amplifier power wire.

I am thinking of getting the powermaster 140 to prevent my voltage from going down to 12 with everything on... but that's completely normal with everything turned on... but even then my lights don't dim, because it's pulling the power from the battery at that point.

do your lights dim when you play your stereo with just the yellowtop? not mine.

 

dont know, im waiting on 0/1 gauge terminals to get here, still running the old battery but i do have the optima now. should get the alternator early next week.

for now im just kind of concentrating on getting my alarm put in, dont want to go to all this work and get my stuff jacked while im at work.

 

whoa, that was some confusing quoting there...

almost dizzy.

 

whoops kinda new to this whole newfangled quoting thingamabobber

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by 1meanGTA
[B]no i got the major problems, with the jerking and all sorted out a few days ago.

What did you mean by jerking? Does your car make any funny noises when you start it...like clicking or do the gauges go haywire. I had some fusible links go out at the starter once, while i was on the highway, killed power to the whole car and the engine shut down. Right before they did, the car would start funny, the gauges would go all over the place and the lights would dim really bad.


Scrapmaker
Does your engine have a serpetine setup?
If you want to get 140A on the cheap, it just MIGHT fit your engine:
https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...08#post2402208

 

the bass would hit and the voltage would drop so much that the ignition wouldnt get enough power, and the rpms would drop a lot.

 

Oh that sounds like you need to get your alternator tested. I usually take mine to autozone and have them check the amperage. The 108 amp i had, they said that it should put out around 40 Amps at idle, when i had those symptoms you describe, they would test it and it would put out around 8amps and they would swap it out. Thats why i did the CS144 conversion, that sucker puts out around 100 amps at idle, or so i have been told.

 

i did the big 3 underhood wiring upgrade in 4 gauge, going to redo it in 0/1 gauge. that helped a lot, the voltage rarely drops under 11 now, but ill have the excessive amperage 200 amp put in monday or tuesday when im off work. the car doesnt jerk anymore, though the rpms will occasionally drop just the slightest bit.

the battery is here, but im waiting on 0/1 gauge battery terminals to put it in. dont think i really need the 200 amp anymore, but it will be nice to not have to upgrade when i get a new amp.

btw, these 31 series optima yellow top deep cycle batteries are fine to use as an under the hood, everyday start right? not just for use as a secondary battery?

 

I'm running a 160amp alt and yellow top in my 91Z. Upgraded some of the engine bay wires and fuses, but not all of them yet. I'm gonna be moving the battery to the rear soon as I get my FMIC piping, so I didnt go all the way. The system is still being pieced together anyway, so no rush. I plan to push around 1500rms, should be good.

 

yellowtop is fine for any car, daily driver or db drag racer.

plus, there's something REALLY wrong with your electrical system if you can pull enough amperes from the alternator to slow the car down...

it's probably not just the alternator... since your battery alone should be able to handle the stereo fine...

plus the car will not really experience ignition troubles until 8 or so volts... I had to drive my car to autozone from a bad alternator and it died in the parkinglot at pretty much 7.5 volts...

as far as I've heard, alternators will not try to produce more power than they are capable of... which also means that it will not stress the belt system that much... say you had a 200amp alternator and you started pulling the full load, I could see that dragging your engine big time... but definitely not with your current sound system setup on a stock electrical system.

 

i'm not really too worried about it, i think its just normal for running a 14-1500 watt amp at 1 ohm, and still having the stock underhood wiring. that head to chassis ground was TINY. the 4 gauge on there now is at least 8 times thicker than the old ones were. just get slight dimming now, and no jerking, and next week i'll have the yellow top and 200 amp in so shouldnt be any probs then

 

if the ground/power wire were too small... your stereo would suffer... not the vehicle... sounds like some other serious problem.

 

the guy i bought my car from went through a lot of the electrical work, and didnt do such a great job. all my gauges work fine, and most everything (except the nitrous grrrr) still works fine, but under the dash it just looks like a hack job. could it be another ground somewhere? i dont know a lot about electrical systems and i dont know where to start looking. start another thread?

 

have you tried direct-grounding the amplifier/headunit straight to the battery?

 

Or upgraded the battery to chassis ground? I see you got the back of the heads.

 

havent tried direct grounding. the 200 amp alternator is in now, and it works awesome over 1000 rpm, but where my engine idles at 700ish, it drops a lot, about 1 and a half notches above the red. maybe half a notch lower with the stereo up all the way, barely even a noticeable drop.

right now i have the negative battery terminal running to the front drivers side head. (aluminum)
the passenger side head is grounded to the chassis in 4 gauge. so i just leave the head grounded the way it is, but move the negative terminal on the battery to a chassis ground?

 

my brother grounded his battery straight to the engine like that too... had nothing but problems with noise...

I'd try and ground the battery straight to the chassis... I just loosened one of the headlight bracket bolts, scraped off the paint, bought a 1AWG power wire(with battery connection on one end,) and put a piece of copper tubing on one end, flattened it, drilled a nice hole in it... bolted it back down... done.

avoid long ground wires if at all possible.

 

damn u still havent sorted out that mess?

 

What I like to do is run 0 gauge from the battery + back to the amp and run 4 gauge from the - to the amp (as a supplement) and then run a short strip of 4 gauge from the battery - to the chassis and then from the amp - to the chassis in the rear. Great current handling, miniscule voltage drops and no problems with any setups like this yet.

 

so your power wire is 0AWG, but your ground is basically two separate 4AWG wires? I don't see a problem, but I wonder why not just run a 0AWG wire from the (-) on the battery to the chassis and call it a day? I see no reason to go through extra stuff if not necessary... you will only pick up more interference...

 

My + supply line is 0 gauge and my ground is run in the standard way (short run from battery - to chassis and another from chassis to amp), but I supplement this with a full run of 4 gauge from the battery back to the amp.

It is overkill, but I've never encountered noise in any install I've ever done. One trick is to make it visually clean & neat -- this oftentimes has the added side-effect of making it perform better due to a thought-out wire routing scheme.

 

hrm, I've never even thought of trying a secondary ground.... because then if somehow your main ground becomes disconnected... all of your power will travel through that 4AWG wire...

 

ok my electrical system is almost squared away. 200 amp alt is in, yellow top is in, i've redone all the underhood wiring to 4 gauge, alt to battery, battery to head, battery to chassis, and head to chassis. im using a 4 gauge ground and power to my nine.1 and 8 gauge for the 35x4. no problems at all with current now, other than when i stop and the rpms drop to 700 or so the voltage will go down a bit, but thats just from the high output alternator. i dont usually have my stereo up if im just sitting somewhere anyway, thats just obnoxious.

only problem now is im getting a bit of noise through my 4x6's and i can't figure out from where. i guess next step is direct grounding head unit and amps

oh yes, and occasionally (if im playing something that hits really, really hard) the amps will still cut out, both at the same time. its not as often as it was before, no its only the hardest hitting songs. it has to be something electrical, unless there is some sort of clipping sensor on the deck that shuts down all preamp outs, but i dont see how the deck could detect clipping since it has no feedback from what the amps are producing. the amps are both powered by the same 4 gauge wire, which splits to 8 guage for the 35x4 and to another 4 gauge for the nine1. its not a voltage drop because it does it while im driving and voltage is at 14.4. really got me stumped

 

a deck would not need feedback from the amp do know if it was clipping... 'clipping' has to do with the source... not the amp... if it's on the amplifier-side, then you are slamming the subs, not clipping... which makes no sense and is impossible.

if your amps are still turning off, I bet it's your headunit or your turn-on wire for the amps.

 

That sounds exactly right. When I install a head, I run the ground from the harness supplied with the head to the vehicle's integrated audio ground in the stereo connector. I ALSO "T" off the ground and run an auxiliary ground somewhere up under the dash. On the Camaro, I tied it in back against the firewall near the driver's feet (but up high & out of the way). You're probably haveing a ground issue where the head will not be able to supply enough current through the remote wires to keep the amps on.

You can test this theory quickly by turning up the head until it starts to cut out and then running a small jumper from the amp's + terminal to the amp's remote terminal. If the amps stop cutting out, you can be assured that it's either the head or its supplemental wiring.