I finally saved up enough money to order my WB. I'm getting a zietronix later this week, and I'll be tuning as soon as I can weld the bung into the collector. It has a nice little datalogger built in, but I want to run open loop and tune my VE tables for my disired AFR's. As far as I know no one has a wb patch for a 747. Is there some line input that I can plug it into and just flip some bits to get the ecm to spit it out the aldl stream. I'm already sending my PW and spark advance through the aldl. I would really like to be able to do both the PW and the wb that way I can correlate exactly where my afr gets flaky. I have a feeling the normal 80% duty cycle limit doesn't hold up with TBI under high pressure.

I was thinking about going ahead and swapping in the 746 I have sitting on the shelf and sending the wbo2 signal in through the IAT line. Then disable the 2 or 3 tables that actually use the IAT. But I want to really master the 747 before I upgrade to any other ecm.

 

Best method to data log a WB on a C3 ECM is Lockers. Next best (once released) will be the SpeedReader. Both the '747 and the '8746 have the IAT ADC input. There is a 1K pull up to 5V on that input. This will need to be taken into account when driving the IAT ADC input.

There are 3 unsed ADC inputs that are tied to ground. A trace cut or two will free one (or two) up to be run to the ECM harness connector.

As for ECM code to do the conversion I would say that the '747 presents a better choice. There are more areas to place the new code. Even after doing all this the down side is that the ALDL is a packet every 1.8 seconds, blah.

If you can data log RPM and MAP via the WB unit at a decent rate, that will be enough to get the VE & AE tuned in. Just set the open loop AFR tables to something like 13.1 at operating temperature. Then tune the VE to match that AFR. Once done then can set the open loop AFR to better values.

RBob.

 

this weekend just added the TPS and TACH inputs to the Innovate WB. have not yet calibrated TACH or run car. did not splice in MAP input. i thought TPS would be a better choice as TPS event is sudden and immediate while MAP event would seem to be more difficult to grasp on relationship of enrichment? not sure on that. anyway as far as AE or PE tuning i will just assume MAP will follow TPS as on WB is shows that double spike (enrichment) first of which i assume is TPS AE. MAP appears to time out and then is all PE. i have hit 95 MAP on winaldl so appears the intake flow is adequate.

 

I see Rbob. I was hoping it wouldn't involve code work, I'll have plenty of WOT and AE stuff to tune on till the spead reader comes out. I never really thought about it but I should be able to get all the info I need to tune the part throttle stuff with just the MAP sensor and the ecm set in open loop mode. I can't wait till see how far off I really am at wot. It's gonna be the old school plug reading and seat of the pants feal VS. WBO2

 

RBob,

Is this different than doing what you suggested with BLM and INT locked at 128 so I can see what the underlying VE table is really doing?

 

Unless you have the WB at a port, it will slightly lag, anything the ecm sees or does. Unless your at 100 frames/ sec with your logger.

 

Just locking the INT & BLM at 128 has a lessor chance of frying the cat. The commanded AFR will still be 14.7:1, the O2 feedback and proportional gains will help keep it there. By forcing open loop and a commanded 13.1:1 AFR will most likely fry a cat.

BMmonteSS wants to run open loop and adjust the VE table to fit. Without knowing the commanded AFR it is tough to make a change to the VE table to match up the commanded and reported. By making the entire open loop table 13.1:1 AFR the tuner will then know what the commanded AFR is.

RBob.

 

RBob,

So with the BLM and INT locked at 128, my next task will be to modify the VE tables and try to get the reported AFR at or close to the commanded 14.7 (which is currently in the bin). Correct?
I am trying to do a balancing act in seeing how I can get part throttle cruise dialed in while maintaining enough fuel flow to satisfy the WOT requirements. Would you start with defining what the WOT requirement is first, then tuning PT based on that?
Just for grins last night, I turned down the FP with the motor idling to see what it would take to get AFR to 14.7. I needed to drop the FP from 15.5 down to 10.5 and got 14.7 on the WB. Sometimes I think a VAFPR is the answer, except I'd be tuning across the VE table with a changing FP. Too bad somebody doesn't make a valve for the vacuum line that allows vacuum at a pre-determined kPa. Sort of an ON/OFF switch for the VAFPR set say at 85kPa.

 

I aways like to start by making sure there is enough fuel at WOT. Of course along the way the part thottle stuff gets roughed in. It's a bummer to get all the part throttle stuff dead on (spending lots of time) then finding out there isn't enough fuel, or there is too much fuel at WOT.

Then all that part throttle stuff is for naught. Unless one has a Locker's board the biggest problem is lack of data. This includes injector duty cycle, AFR, RPM, MAP, then for AE the delta MAP and delta TPS terms along with the MAP and TPS contributions to AE fueling.

The actual TBI code doesn't help much either. Back to your question, make sure there is enough fuel at a proper duty cycle all through the WOT range. Once that is correct finish off the part throttle and idle stuff.

RBob.

 

Which was precisely the situation I found myself in when I came to the POWWOW. Here I had done a GREAT job with the PT VE tables, and then Grumpy's WB shows that I'm over 14:1 at WOT.
DOH! From previous scans I have done, I could see that the DC on the injectors was over 100% at WOT. Looks like I'll either need more FP, a larger injector, or BOTH.