I'm in the planning stages of converting my '88 Camaro back to EFI and I've got a few questions:

The basic idea I have is to use a ported TB (from a 454 TBI) without the injectors, mounted on a single plane carb intake (Torker II? Victor Jr.?), And a harness, injectors, and ECM from a SD TPI car.

I've got a few issues I can't figure out.

I'm running a full MSD ignition (ProBillet distributor, 6AL, and a Blaster HVC coil), is there a way to keep my distributor? locking out the advance and just splicing in the trigger? I've heard that the 7730 ECMs have the ESC built in.

I'd like to use a SD system (easier than rigging in a MAF), and I plan on adding boost in the future.

I just read a post about using a TBI ECM to control a PFI setup, is that really possible?

And finally, will I be able to "delete" the sensors/emissions equip. that I don't use, without screwing up the ECM too badly? (I'm looking into burining my own chips also).

I don't want to go with a full TPI setup (changing heads), and TBI seems like a waste of time.

This is all going on a non emissions GM crate 350 (universal/69-85).

ANY constructive criticism would be GREATLY appreciated.

Thanks,

John

PS: I'm on a VERY tight budget (8MPG & $1.60 a gal doesn't help).



------------------
'88 Camaro- Originally a 2.8, 7/98-3.1, 11/99- L-69, 8/00- Twee-Fidy!

"If it don't make it faster, it ain't got it!"
(no PS,PW,A/C)

ive seen the single plane port injection conversion, i dont think you could go wrong with either of those manifolds

yes the tbi ecm can control port injection, im pretty sure youll need an injector driver circuit to deliver the right amount of electricity to each batch of injectors (edelbrock does this in their conversion)

About your distributor, if this is a standard distributor, it wont work, you need something with a pickup coil and ignition module as the signal this sends back to the ecm is important and its also how the ecm adjusts timing

Deleting sensors is not a good idea, since your ecm uses every sensor for engine management.. deleting your smog equipment is fine, obd 1 doesnt check for it

Why would TPI require you to change heads? you dont have vortecs do you? If not, tpi can work on your heads
TBI is also an excellent alternative especially if you have the 454 tb allready as that can support up to around 350 hp.

as for criticism, i dont think this swap is beneficial to you at this point since you said money was an issue, and this would see the best gains if you were using some form of forced induction. In addition, this is a pretty involved project for someone to try for their first attempt at FI. Im not just talking about the manifold machining, fuel system fabrication.. thats easy, but the tuning is not. Dont get me wrong, i think it would be an awesome setup but probably more trouble than its worth right now, besides the NA performance wont be much better if at all than a TBI setup done right on the same manifold. TPI can work well too but will need alot of grinding in various areas to get it to flow sufficiently. My advice to you is to try the 454 tbi setup on that manifold, I think youll be surprised by the results. Its also a good way to get your feet wet with prom tuning.

Yeah, I was hoping to be able to use a "stock" PROM calibration (or a slightly modified one) at first, and then start tinkering...

I've helped tune my buddie's Speed-Pro DFI setup (406 FORD w/30#s of boost), and I've got a TON of tech articles, so I have somewhat of an idea of where to start.

I was looking at the wiring schematics on my Chilton's manual and it looks like I can just wire the ignition module into the pickup coil on my MSD, I was just wondering if anyone has done it..

I don't mind the wiring. Try putting an LT1 in a '94 S-10 on your first motor swap! (man it was FAST!)... (If anyone knows where HBR in hollywood FL is, his son now owns the S-10)

And I've got access to a TIG welder, so modifying the manifold isn't a problem.

What I meant by "deleting" sensors is, I don't have A/C or PS anymore, and I'm not going to try and rig an EGR or an air pump up to my headers.

The heads on the motor are pre '87, I don't feel like tracking down an '85/'86 intake, I'd like to use my cowl induction hood, and I don't want to have problems with my accessory system (V-belt WP and ALT).

I can pick up a throttle body, harness, and ECM for $50. When I said I was on a budget, I meant I want to do this swap cheaper than buying an aftermarket system..

I'm aiming for <$800.

I've got a -08 BSS feed line, a -10 return, and a 3-port FI AFPR, all I need to do is swap out my fuel pump.

I've got a laptop and a Snap-On scanner and all the burning,reading,erasing software, so all I need is the cable and burner/eraser.

I just need to know what harness/ECM would be best.

I don't mean to sound like a ****, I'm taking everything you say into consideration, I'm just trying to clear things up.

Thanks Pablo.


John

PS: "more trouble than it's worth" ? They will be writing that on my tombstone!

I've rewired the car 3 times, gone through 4 engines, 6 transmissions (and only 3 sets of tires)... in the last 4 years! And my car still needs paint!

haah well in that case go for it, id be interested to see that thing go! , but fyi im pretty sure you can mod the manifold from a late tpi to fit early heads

and yeah a stock prom would work initially, youll need to tune of course, if i were you id start off with a 730 ecm rather than any of the tbi ecms
im not familiar with the msd setup so i cant comment on that
about the egr, air pump, etc
the only one that could throw a code if not there is egr, and if you are programming your own chips you simply disable it if you dont have it, dont worry about the other stuff
its pretty straightforward i think, just get the rail onthe manifold and bolted down, and really the only difference from the tpi would be the manifold. I was actually planning on doing the same thing at one point as i have a complete TPI setup, was thinking of putting injector bungs on my manifold etc.. i still might a little later

Ok, I'll keep you posted.

I'll probably start gathering parts next weekend.

HOLY CR@P!!!

I just realised you're in Miami!!!!

COOL!

We'll have to meet up some time..


You ever make it up to TowerShops (595&University) on Friday nights?

HAhaha i was up there once! but that place is REAL far from my house, went there to meet up with those fourth gen frat boy boyfriends from the SFFBC

What did you think i meant by "hey i have to see that thing run!" lol I know a guy up your way whos real into programming and stuff hes helped me out alot actually maybe we can all hook up at the track or something and talk FI.

Do you have ICQ?

heck maybe you can weld those injector bungs on my manifold for me eh? to share notes of course eheh

LOL!! Ok, maybe... I'll see how mine turns out.

I was going to get the injector bosses from Force (www.force-efi.com) for $60, and the fuel rails- $10 a foot (if the factory ones don't line up).

Where did you get yours? How much were they?

Anyone here get me a 454 Rochester 2" TBI for a good price??? I think he said TB, ECU and harness for $50... I just need a TB, complete. Please help out a CT man. SOoooooooooooooo many trucks up here, cannot find a 454 TB that isn't on a running motor at a boneyard.

I'll try to pick one up when I get mine, e-mail me next weekend.

Sweet...

812MANY,

Any luck finding me a used 2" OEM TBI unit w/injectors?

(also posted on TBI board, which is better place for this???)

Nope, there aren't ANY TBIs left on the chevys!

They have TONS of Ford 5.8 intakes, but all the chevys are gone...

I DID find a Chrysler TB off a (318?) V8 with SFI, it's a 2bbl TB with butterflys a little larger than 2".

The TPS looks about the same, but I'm not sure if the IAC is compatible (anyone done this before?).

The TB is made by Holley, not Rochester.

It was the ONLY TB there... I'm going to wait another week, if it's still the only one (and nobody tells me it's impossible to adapt to my setup) I'll pick it up.

They said $27.50 + a $5.00 core charge.

You should be able to get it to work but I don't like the Holley equipment. Mainly the injectors...

Please post topic with my name in it if you find something + good luck.