dboersma69

I have seen all the threads in the forum on cruise control but am wondering if there is someone here that has documented adding cruise when it wasn't original to the car?

I think I have all the underhood components and under dash components..... but for the life of me I cannot find photos showing where everything should go. I also have seen postings several times that say the under dash harness should be there - but as you all know there is a ton crammed in our dashes. If I don't need the under dash harness, that's great... but I cannot see, let alone find where the connector from the servo harness connect above the column - way too much there. It would be great if someone has a pic.

If I do need to install the under dash harness, can anyone label a pic of where all the connectors would go? and if there are any items that would need to be installed that I might not know about (transmission related?) that would be great too.

One more thing.... would the cruise module mount under the ecm? or next to it? or on the heat/ac duct?

paulo57509

Never tried to retrofit an OEM cruise control.

I would think as a minimum you'd need the 1987 FSM; both the service and electrical supplement.

If those photos are supposed to show all the components you've gathered up, you're missing the vacuum diaphragm and throttle cable.

dboersma69

I have the servo, cable and clip too. Looking for notes on the connectors.. That's why I posted the photos. Service manual has nothing. Trying to match connectors to wiring diagrams is.... Well a PITA

Drew

iTrader: (58)

The GM service manual will have diagrams, and all of the connector numbers and faces, it's just a pita flipping back and forth to four different pages at a time figuring out which is which.

The only part of the CC system that will already be in the car, is connector C211, which provides the VSS signal and power to the cruise control harness. Everything else you'll need from a donor car.

Looks like you have the wrong cruise module harness for an 87. The harness you have doesn't appear to have the correct C211 plug. It'd be a white two wire connector, with a brown and pink/blk wires, close to the module.

You have the vacuum release switch for the CC, but you also need to change the brake pedal light switch to one from a CC car.

The module bracket mounts to the back of the passenger's side of the dash, between the HVAC box and the dash, one screw at the top, two at the bottom.

Once you have the right components, the module harness plugs into C211 which is a white two wire plug mentioned earlier. It'll be taped to the dash harness between the climate controls/radio and the ECM. The other end of the module harness plugs into the servo harness, as best as I can tell the Iroc foglights in 87 and the cruise use the same hole in the firewall. The other connectors on the harness connect to the cruise control stalk, and brake pedal switch.

Hardest part is finding all the right pieces, and getting them installed. Otherwise its just plug and play.

John in RI

iTrader: (167)

The pics of the wiring harnesses in your post were taken from my website,.... I figured a little additional info might help; The one pictured is from an 86 IROC automatic. If your car did not originally have cruise control then the harness will not be 'hidden' in your dash - it will need to be added.

Cruise control (dash) harnesses are not all the same. There is - at least - a Berlinetta version, a Camaro version & Firebird version. Each version was tailor made for auto or manual tranny cars. Each version also changed a couple times over the years due to specific plugs & brake switch requirements. Pretty sure the range is 82-86, 87-90 and 91-92. ( double check to be sure ! )

Here is a picture of the 86 and 87 cruise control dash harness for automatic FIREBIRD cars. You can see the 2 wire connector that Drew was describing on the 87 version. ( white plug near modules in pic ). Pretty sure the White 2 wire power plug was used for Firebirds only and Camaro had the 1-wire power as shown in the pic that you posted from my site. I could be wrong because I don't have a KNOWN 87 Camaro harness to inspect.)




Also remember that the engine bay harness might be different from Camaro to Firebird too,.... the Camaro mounted the servo on the 'battery tray' and the Firebird mounted it on the inner fender well so one harness might be longer than the other. I know the servos changed too - at least in appearance. I'm not sure - but the servos might be compatible to both systems.

Take a look at the brake switch mounted to your car right now. if it has a 3-pin brake switch plug at the top then go with the harness marked 87,...... if it has a 2 wire brake switch plug then go with the harness marked 86.

Hope this helps somehow !

John in RI

iTrader: (167)

I got curious and checked a couple shop manuals,....

Looks like the picture you posted from my site is from an 85 IROC; I can't be sure if the 86 Camaro got a 1 or 2 wire power/VSS connection. ( the 86 Firebird manual shows a 2-wire white plug. )

The 87 Camaro shop manual shows a WHITE 2-WIRE connector as shown in the pic I posted today. Also checked the brake switch for the 87 Camaro and the shop manual shows it as a blue connector with 2 wires - so the harness marked 87 in the pic I posted today is the one you will need.

Again - to be sure; double check the plug currently plugged into you existing brake switch !

dboersma69

Thanks John RI and Drew.... John, do you have a 87 under dash harness available?

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Camaro vs Firebird doesn't matter too much. The cruise module harness is the same regardless. Year isn't too picky either. For example, the cruise I swapped into my 87 Iroc a few weeks ago consists of an 86 Firebird module and harness, 84 Camaro module mounting bracket, 91 Firebird servo & TPI cable, and an Ebay CC stalk. All of the above was plug and play. Stick close to the right year and you'll be fine. If you can get everything from a donor car of the same year, same engine, same trans, etc it'd be easiest.

There isn't really a Camaro or Firebird specific servo bracket. It has more to do with the drivetrain in the car. Most Camaros have the servo on the drivers side frame rail behind the radiator support. TPI Firebirds have the battery there, so the servo was moved to the fender next to the washer tank. However, carbed and TBI Firebirds had the battery on the passenger's side like a Camaro, subsequently the servo location is the same as the Camaro. Meanwhile, all 90-92 3.1L Camaros used the Firebird style air intake duct and driver's side battery, hence they have the servo on the fender.

From what I can tell, 84-92 all use the same servo. The module was mounted in different places depending on the year. 84-89 Camaro have the module between the dash and hvac box just to the right of the transmission tunnel. 90-92 the module mounts to the heater core cover on the hvac box. 85-89 Firebirds have the module on a unique bracket behind the passenger's side of the dash. The module seems to change types in about 1990 to add the mounting tabs to the plastic case, and there's no longer a steel bracket.

John in RI

iTrader: (167)

I started looking into these things after posting here yesterday,.... I inspected the brake switch plug and cruise power connections of several various Dash harnesses to get a clear picture of what cruise harness is 'correct' for as many ThirdGen variations as possible.

Well; we know that's not true. The pics I posted yesterday had already shown that this info is not accurate. When it comes to wiring 95% of people want plug-&-play so getting the correct harness is important. As I wrote yesterday, there are several different types of Cruise Control harnesses; At this point I have ID'd at least 5 different AUTO cruise harnesses & when Stick harnesses are included I'm up to 10 different and specific cruise control harness variations.

This harness has a yellow wire to the dash harness and a 2-wire fuse box lead. It is specific to the Digital 84-86 Berlinetta only:




This harness has a single RED wire to the dash connector, a 1 wire fuse box lead and used a 2 PIN brake switch. It was found to be compatible with:
82-84 Firebird
82-83 Berlinetta
82-85 Camaro



This harness used a 2 wire dash harness connector, and a 2 PIN brake switch. It was found to be compatible with one ONLY 1 ThirdGen

85 Firebird - ONLY



This harness has used a 2 wire dash harness connector and a 3 PIN brake switch. It was found to be compatible with:
86-89 Firebird
87-89 Camaro



This harness has a multi lever switch connection that was changed from a "spade" connector to a 4-pin plug.. It was found to be compatible with:
90-92 Firebird
90-92 Camaro



** Keep in mind that all harnesses shown so far as for AUTOMATICS. Stick cars use a harness that also includes a clutch switch connector. Some cars may have a small / simple in-line 'add-on' harness rather than a harness with the clutch wires integrated into it. Here is an example of a manual cruise control harness for 87 Thirdgens:



This is not a complete listing because I don't have every dash harness ever made,..... but most of the info is know to be accurate. I am unsure about the 86 Camaro but the 86 Firebird is know to have a 2 wire dash and a 3 wire brake - I've got to assume the Camaro was changed in 86 to also use the 2-wire dash harness plug & 3 wire brake switch ( There are several other know dash harness changes to the 86 Camaro dash harness. ) I am also unsure what year the multi-function switch changed from a spade connection to a 4-pin plug; pretty sure this was changed for 90,... but it might have been changed in 89.

Hope this info helps anyone that needs to work on their Cruise Control !!!

Drew

iTrader: (58)

And right there you just summed up 95% of the thirdgens a forum visitor is likely to own and find in a junkyard. With the exception of maybe the 86 Camaro using a different harness, your data supports my point that Camaro vs Firebird doesn't matter too much. Within the scope of the OPs question, my statements are correct. Berlinetta and early thirdgen owners should absolutely disregard my comments, since they dont apply to that application.

John in RI

iTrader: (167)

When I read you post last night I had a good laugh,... as I write now I realize that it wasn't really a funny post - but kinda' sad. If it allows you to sleep at night believing that you are always "right" continue to pass along bull-****. I'll continue to post VALID information to this site so that when people read my posts in the future they will be properly informed and do not act on someone just guessing.

My initial post here contained a pic showing that the Cruise control harnesses were NOT all the same, and you even mentioned it yourself; yet for some reason you were then compelled to argue that they are all the same harness. Then I provided detailed analysis of actual dash wiring comparisons from various cars thru various years posting pictures proving that at least 5 different harnesses were used. ( NOT even counting the Manual tranny version of the cruise harnesses. ) And somehow you feel as if your guess work are actual facts.

Had I not posted to this thread than some member would read your info in the future and might mistake it as accurate. An 85 Firebird Cruise harness will is not plug and play ( meaning NOT the same ) as an 85 Camaro cruise harness. I'm not guessing, I had the dash harness from each car in my hands. Then, you conveniently remove around 1/2 of the F-Bodies ever produced in your attempt to be "right". Even that attempt to hand-pick the data to validate your bad information is WRONG; the Cruise harness from an 87 Z is NOT the same as the one from a 91 Z. Plain and simple.

You don't know everything & It's OK to be wrong sometimes. ( Why do so many people today have a problem accepting that they are wrong ?? ) I'm wrong a lot,... and when I'm wrong I have no problem accepting it and embracing it. I can't learn from my mistakes if I never allow myself to admit to them.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Yet you can't accept that an 87 Iroc uses the same cruise control harness as an 87 Firebird. How odd.

How hard is it to understand context? The OP was asking about adding cruise to an 87 Iroc, and I gave him information to accomplish that task, which I just did myself not even a month ago. Sorry I didn't acquire one of every harness that exists, and confer with every shop manual and wiring diagram to answer what I considered to be a basic question. I really wasn't concerned with every other person who might have a similar question in the future.

Actually, in your initial post, you basically told the OP that a Firebird cruise harness and parts would be completely different than a Camaro. Quoted below is you claiming that the harnesses are Camaro or Firebird specific. Along with claiming my facts taken directly from the 1987 Camaro Electrical Diagnosis Manual and confirmed by checking my 87 Iroc, are wrong...

I didn't argue anything. I merely suggested that year and make/model isn't nearly as specific as you seemed to suggest. It is a FACT that some Camaro and Firebird cruise hardware is exactly the same and interchangeable.

Have you forgotten that this is a discussion forum, for everyone to contribute to? If I'd said nothing, OP would probably still be under the impression he needed a harness from an identical donor car when in fact nearly any 86-89 Camaro or Firebird harness will work.

Are you off your meds again John? Seriously, get a grip.

John in RI

iTrader: (167)

Yup,... I said Camaro and Firebird were the same in my initial arm-chair basement. ( though at that time I said "I could be wrong") Yup, your post taught me that the Camaro and Firebird were the same in 87; and got me curious enough to learn that they were NOT the same for Camaro and Firebird in 85. & while there were already 3 pictures of various harness displayed, rather than accepting that you might be wrong you write :

[QUOTE]The cruise module harness is the same regardless. Year isn't too picky either.......QUOTE]

Yup,... I posted another update to be sure it was made clear for anyone that SEARCHes TGO for "cruise control" knows that there is a minimum of 5 types of Automatic Cruise Control harnesses used from 82-92.


Back to Topic:

Because I mentioned the 'add-on' wiring a post or 2 back I wanted to update this thread...... I didn't have much standard tranny wiring to look at but did previously manage to find the 86-89 cruise control harness was made in 2 ways during those years ( There is an Auto version and a and Stick version. see pics above )

Yesterday I found this 'adapter' in use in an 85 Berlinetta. You can see that it's basically the clutch cut-off switch that gets plugged in-line with the brake cut-off switch. It uses the 2 spade brake switch so it would only be used in 82-85 cars. Seems reasonable to think that all cruise control cars those years got the same basic harness, then GM just installed the adapter when needed for stick cars.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Which is fairly irrelevant since the OP is working with an 87 Camaro. If a person has the correct GM service manual for their car, and takes the time to review the various diagrams, they will know if the harness from another car is going to match up.

[QUOTE=John in RI;5938584]while there were already 3 pictures of various harness displayed, rather than accepting that you might be wrong you write :

Actually John, you posted those pics of harnesses AFTER I made that comment. Again you're dismissing the entire context of the paragraph those sentences were quoted from, the context of the OP's question, and the context of the discussion in which you introduced the notion that the harnesses are specific to the Camaro or Firebird. The message isn't "They're all the same, don't worry about it", the message was that you can mix and match from a surprising range of donor cars to build a functioning system.

As for your crusade to prove I could be wrong... I make mistakes all the time, who doesn't? Who cares?

My intention was to share a little of what I learned when adding OEM cruise to my 87 Iroc a few weeks ago, with someone who is now trying to do the same. Not to build my post count, or prove my knowledge of insignificant trivia, just to save someone else the time I spent flipping back and forth in the manual and comparing donor parts to diagrams.

That's very considerate of you. I wonder why the same consideration wasn't made before you started muddying this thread with absolutely wrong contributions?

Just let it go man. I don't care, the OP doesn't care.

John in RI

iTrader: (167)

I stand corrected,... there were not 3 pics; there were 2 pics already posted of 3 different harnesses.


Weird; your first post shows that you clearly KNEW the harnesses were very different - but for some reason you started with " harness is the same regardless. Year isn't too picky either. " Muddying the water is the best way to desxcribe it.

Oh Ya',.... THEN I posted pictures of all 5 of the different AUTO Cruise harnesses for clarification.

Notice my early posts had a lot of "Pretty sure", "double check to be sure", "I could be wrong ", "I'm not sure". I KNEW they were different early on too,... just didn't KNOW why. When I learned why, I explained what I learned & why I was wrong. Notice none of my posts - since you changed your tune - do I say say things like "might be", "double check", ect.... 'cause now I'm not only sure that they are different, but also why they are different.

Probably should have done this sooner: I had passed these schematics directly to Dave a couple days ago but now I realize that this thread would be the best place to post the wiring schematics so that anyone with an 87 can find & use them.




( From the Camaro service manual. )

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Why? Why post any images of any harnesses that won't work for the person asking the question?

Maybe my posts seem to contradict each other because you lack reading comprehension, and misinterpreted what I was saying...

Again I ask WHY? Why post a pile of harnesses that aren't even applicable to the topic the OP started? All it does is invite more confusion. You say it's for people who might search the topic in the future, but can't they start their own threads? Can they not understand that what applies to 1987 might not apply to 1982 or 1992?

If you didn't KNOW why would you come in and suggest what I knew was wrong without checking your resources first? Muddying the water, indeed.
When exactly did I change my tune? I knew the answers to the OP's question from the beginning. I wasn't guessing.

I feel like I'm stuck on a roundabout here, but again I have to ask WHY?

It sure sounds to me like the OP has the service manual, so why waste his time sending him something he already has? What's the point of posting them here when this thread is 99% you jumping around like a child screaming that I'm wrong? Seriously, this thread is hosed because you have a chip on your shoulder. No one else could possibly care less.

In this thread, the circumstances and facts that surround the situation are a 1987 Iroc, cruise control, the harnesses, connectors, etc. Anything outside of an 87 Iroc doesn't really apply, as it's unrelated.

Ok, so let's look at the statement that has your panties in a bunch, and see how context might just apply...

Alright, let's break it down.

If we look at the first part of the sentence, "Camaro vs Firebird doesn't matter" could be considered an absolute statement. An absolute statement being defined as "a statement that is generally true, in all situations and circumstances. It is pure, unshakable truth that could never be wrong." But then the qualifier ("A word or phrase that qualifies, limits, or modifies the meaning of another word or phrase.") modifies the statement by adding "too much".

So taken as a whole sentence, the statement "Camaro vs Firebird doesn't matter too much." doesn't mean just it absolutely doesn't matter, only that it doesn't matter to a point of being intolerable, impossible, or exhausting. You could also say it doesn't always matter, or that there are exceptions to the rule.

Moving on to the second sentence... It seems pretty concrete doesn't it? Except the context of this sentence is established by the first sentence, which establishes that we're talking about Camaro vs Firebird. In other words, the harness is the same regardless of being from a Camaro or Firebird. As illustrated so many times in this thread, I think we can agree in many circumstances this is generally true.

Now, let's put those two sentences together and see if we can figure out what they might be communicating...

So you might say that - The cruise module harness isn't absolutely different between the Camaro and Firebird. A statement that's supported by facts elsewhere in the thread.

But wait, what about that last part?
Again, the preceding sentences establish the context that we're talking about cruise module harnesses. And there is that word "too" again.

Too : To a higher degree than is desirable, permissible, or possible; excessively.

So the word too implies that "picky" isn't absolute, while acknowledging that in some degree it applies. You could also say "Year isn't ALWAYS picky either".

Let's put it all together now...

One way to interpret these three sentences is that the cruise module harness is often, but not always, the same regardless of exact year or if it's from a Camaro or Firebird. Again, since we're talking about 1987 Iroc cruise control module harnesses, and other years, and some Firebirds used the same harness, as documented elsewhere in the thread, this is an accurate statement.

Honestly, my approach to this entire thread was to give a bit of general guidance, without holding anyone's hand through the entire process. If a person has the correct service manual, it shows nearly everything a person needs to know to accomplish adding OEM cruise control.

The only reason I made the statement that has you so riled up John, is because you severely complicated the situation by discounting a few hundred thousand possible donor cars, because you didn't know what the hell you were talking about. Your lack in reading comprehension skills is another issue, and frankly it's not my problem, but I do hope you learned something from the 9th grade English review.

John in RI

iTrader: (167)

I didn't read a single sentance you just posted. Everything I posted here was fine until I wrote:

Rather than just sayin' "opps" & accepting that you might have made a mistake and been wrong,.......

Who's got a chip on thier shoulder ??

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Imagine that, you didn't read anything I posted earlier in the thread either.

If by "fine" you mean incorrect, irrelevant, inconsequential, etc, than yes, it was all "fine". But even after your claim that I'm wrong, like you just found a golden ticket in your Wonka bar, it was all good. It wasn't until your ignorant and childish rant in post #11 that things got really off track.

My mistake was to think that you could read and comprehend a sentence in English. "Opps!" I guess I overestimated you.

If anyone has a chip on their shoulder, it's probably the guy who is so concerned about being right, when he's demonstrated himself that he was wrong, and is still bumping the thread looking for an admission of guilt. I don't care if you think I was wrong or not, ZFG. Get over it already. Have a Coke and a smile, and STFU.

John in RI

iTrader: (167)

Fine = the first pic I posted in this thread showing EXACTLY what an 87 Harness should look like. I am Smiling and I prefer Pepsi.

True colors dude,........

dboersma69

One last question.... (I hope with no controversy) Everything should come together pretty well... It took forever to get the cruise/turn signal wire down the column. So I got it down there - but where in the world is the connector that this goes into? If anyone has a pic that would AWESOME!

Thanks :O)

John in RI

iTrader: (167)

Ya',... Getting the CC wire thru the column can be a PITA; One of those things that either goes real quick and easy,... or really difficult !

The turn stalk cruise spade connector will plug into the connector I circled in this pic:






Good to hear that your making progress & hope you get it workin' soon.