i finally got the V6->V8 swap done and drove it for the first time tonight. it went ok, brakes need redone, and there is no power steering but hey, you need some excitment right?
it ran pretty good, i dont have the secondaries hooked up on the carb, and have stock tires on it.
the transmission shifts like a b*tch. I dont know if i am gonna like it shifting THAT hard just at part throttle. i talked to dana a while back, and he said to put the junior accumulator in it will shift softer at part throttle but the same at WOT.
i shifted into 2nd at 3500 with the 2 barrels, and the thing honestly went sideways, to the point I got out of the gas for fear of getting personal with the ditch.
WOT with 4 barrels at 6000 going into 2nd oughta be fun, need more tire first though.
i will get some pics of the engine up this weekend. I am happy with the way it looks. thanks for everyone that has helped me on here. It was strange driving it since the car as never monved on its own since I have seen it. Now I just need to get the thing one color.

 

Congratulations! Not sure if you're a graduate of the school of hard knocks, or a professional student in the university of the never-ending project.

My car hadn't moved under its own power for over 4 years. The previous owner had never driven it. I wasn't sure exactly what noises and vibrations were normal and which indicated a problem (that engine speed-related shake turned out to be a bad torque converter).

When are the subframe connectors going in?

 

thanks for the reply. the sub frames are probably going in after i get it registered this week, and can drive it to work. right now, the darn thing wont idle. i dont know if it has a blown power vavle or what. the carb has been on 4 different cars, and has never had a problem. now that its on mine it wont idle till its been running for 10 minutes and even then it changes idle speed whenever it wants. so i will have to check it this week.
would i do the swap again? probably not, unless the car was really really nice.

 

The idle problem may be the transition slots. They should be uncovered by the throttle blades about the same amount as their width when warmed up (have to have the carb off to see this). The cold problem is choke related (do you even have one?).

 

sorry it took so long to reply, i started school this week and been working alot to. i got a chance to work on it tonight. I took the front fuel bowl off and cleaned it out and looked at the power valve. i put it back together and it idles alot better, it idles at 900rpm and sounds really good. i am only pulling 10-11inches of vacuum.
i hooked the 4 barrels up and went and drove it, it killed the stock tires easily and pulled to 5500 then the tranny shifted(i have to re do the springs so it will go to 6000+)i was happy i guess but couldnt tell how fast it was cause it was just spinning.
so me and my bright ideas went home and bolted my buddies ET streets on it and took it back out.
BLAHHHHHHHHH what a let down. oh man the thing felt slow. for one i was going up a step incline which i am sure didnt help.
it didnt pull off the line as hard as i thought and it never felt like the 4 barrels really came in. so after a few launches i took it home, for fear of the sheriffs department findind me with the car not licensed or insured.
I finally got a fuel gauge on it that works and i am only getting about 3.5-4psi. the regulator I have is messed up and I cant adjust the fp at all.
I checked the fuel bowls and the rear bowl was low so i raised it.
I checked the timing and had set it at 12 degrees originally but now it was jumping around between 6 & 10 degrees. I dont remember this happening on any of my friends cars with cams in them.
Tt does stall at 2500rpm
I know there is alot of stuff I still have to do, mess with carb, fp, jetting and stuff but i was not impressed at all after driving it.
Thanks for any input.

 

The post about the transfer slots is right on. I thought I remembered the rule of thumb being that the transfer slots should be totally uncovered, but it's been a few years.. anyhow, once you have the throttle blades in the correct position, if the idle speed is too low due to lack of air, you have to leave the idle speed screw alone (so as to not uncover the transfer slots). instead you have to drill a small hole in each primary throttle blade to let them bleed air. The main reason this is necessary is because of the cam. you start with a small hole and enlarge slightly until the desired idle speed is reached. no more than about 1/8 in each blade should be needed, start smaller first.

also should try to nail down why your timing is jumping around, obviously make sure distributor is tight. pull the cap and make sure the springs and weights are all in good shape. it's normal for it to jump around (maybe 2 degrees) but 4 degrees seems a bit much. are you using points or HEI?. if points maybe the points are worn. HEI is usually more accurate. If you need to maintain the high idle RPM because of the cam, make sure you aren't getting any mechanical advance coming in at idle, as that can wreck havoc on idle stability if the timing is constantly changing. you could temporarily use heavy springs and light weights in the dist to see if this is the case. oh and you said the timing actually changed from what you set it as, that could be dist slip (not tight), or advance is coming in way too early. are you using the vacuum advance? with such low vacuum it may be best to cap it off.

For what it's worth on the 350 in my 71 RS with a similiar buildup, I had much better lock with the 3310 750cfm vacuum secondary. i tried for ages to tune the secondarys on a 650 mech. secondary I had, and i could NEVER get that thing right. the 3310 was better from the day i bolted it on.

The 350 in my 71 was as follows
9:1 CR
untouched fuelie heads (1.94, 1.50)
generic summit cam, 224/224 @ 0.050, 114* lobe sep
rhoads lifters (bleed down at low rpm, absorb lift and duration)
1 5/8 long tube headers
edelbrock performer manifold
holley 3310 750cfm vac sec
4spd with 3.42:1 gears

the engine idled smooth all the way down to 650rpm, and pulled around 15" of vacuum (mostly thanks to the lifters). it was very quick, definately quicker than my 91 L98. It pulled strong to about 5500rpm and then laid down.

oh and your fuel pressure isn't too bad, maybe get it up to 4.5psi but not much beyond that, don't want to flood the bowl out by pushing the floats/needles off the seat.

good luck!

 

i drove it again this afternoon up and down my road, nobody is home so i made a few hot passes
it seemed to run better today, maybe its just me. it still has the slicks on it. I raised the rear float level up some last night. From a 5mph roll after it gets up on the converter it will spin the ET Streets all the way through first. It still doesnt feel like its pulling really hard up top.
I have a 750VS that i might put on it just to see if it acts different.
I am unsure about what you guys are meaning by transistion slots. It idled a little bit better when it was cold today but not great. I can just barely lay my foot on the gas and its ok. it's running rich at idle after it sits for a while in the garage your eyes start to burn(yes the door is open, lol) and adjusting the screws really dont make that big of differnce, i mean you can turn them in and kill it, but when you turn them out the engine isnt very responsive to the tuning(i am using a vacuum gauge) again its about 10-11 inches. could i have the wrong power valve in it? i think there is a 956 or something like that in there now.
I am using HEI, i am pretty sure i have some light springs in there now. I was thinking about maybe it was pulling in some mechanical advance too, as mentioned by 91L98Z28. I will have to put heavier springs in it and see if that makes a difference.

My buddy had this same setup on a 350, same heads, intake and carbin his 68 impala and i swore that thing pulled harder up top. first he had a lunati street master cam in it, i cant remember the specs, around 270 adv, and then had a comp cams in it, i think the specs where 229/229@.050 275/275 adv, dont know the lift and didnt have any idle problems. then he had it on his firebird with a mild 455 in it with a 274 xtreme cam and it ran fine. then we put it on my engine, with a 268xtreme cam and it acts kinda weird. I have read in several magazines the vacuum with this cam is marginal.
I am also used to riding in my buddys firebird which runs bottom 8's in the 1/8 mile. I know my car isnt nearly that fast and am hoping for 8.7's after i tune it out. Thanks for the replys.

 

if youre going to be tuning a holley carb on a fairly radically cammed motor (and 110 lobe seperation isn't exactly mild!), do yourself a favor and buy one of the holley books that deal with tuning the carb.

transfer slots are little "slots" that are part of the carb body. If you pick up a holley carb, turn it upside down, and start to crack the throttle, you will see a vertical "slot" in the area where the throttle blade is moving away from the carb body (it's usually near the idle fuel hole). this is a transfer slot. It lets some fuel start to flow into the engine just off idle. But once the transfer slot is exposed to engine vacuum, the idle circuit becomes ineffective. hence the need to keep the throttle blades in the proper shut position...but that means you have to find another way to get the air into the engine, hence cracking the secondaries open a bit or drilling a hole in each throttle blade.

Here's a few holley references

http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/TechSer...o/Trblsht.html
http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/TechSer...o/FMCTech.html

here's a (semi poor) picture of the transfer slot area:
http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/TechSer...nfo/P219A.html

 

what type of mods did you have to do to the 650DP compared to the 750VS? you cant get the secondaries up on the 750 with out a kit right? is that better/worse than a 650DP? thanks again.

 

when you crack open the secondaries, it's only a very minor amount. It's been a few years since I messed with a carb, but I think the secondaries have a small set screw that threads into the base from the bottom side to adjust their position.

I didn't really modify either carb. On the 650 I tried different pump cams, squirters, etc. to try and tune it for a reasonable response but I was just never happy with it. I bolted the 750 on it was so much better that I just left it alone and never touched it.

I was much happier with the 750. Why? who knows. everyone always recommends vacuum secondaries on the street, but with your cam (and low vacuum) you might not have great luck with it. maybe i just never could tune the 650 right. it's hard to say. but that's my experience with it.

 

i had some luck tonight. i got home at about 1am and the whole thing with my car was bugging me so i went and messed with it. i started it and the damn thing just wouldnt idle. so i got to thinking about the mechanical advance thing. i popped the cap and rotor off and found that i had the white springs on there and they were super super light so i put the brown springs on which are a step stiffer. i restarted it and it sounded different immediately. i had the idle screw turned up after i started it so it would run and check the timing. i rechecked the timing again(after i put the browm springs in it)and before were it was running 6-10 degrees it was running 12 degress ATDC. I thought that was interesting. so i moved the timing up and of the course the rpms picked up. i idled it down and the timing came down, then i realized i had the vacuum advance still hooked up. its on the timed port and i thought it was odd that it was pulling timing but then i thought about how much the throttle blades were open and thats why it had vacuum. so i slowed the idle down and the the timed port didnt have any vacuum. so i would bump the timing up then slow the idle down and did that several times and set it at 12BTDC. i did it that way to see exactly how the engine was reacting. i must have backed the idle screw off 2 rounds. you could tell when it went to the idle circut because the engine calmed down. i can idle it down to 600rpm and it still does good. as were before it wouldnt hardly idle at 800 and when i put it in gear it still idles well. i put a vacumm gauge on it and its still pulling 10-11in but its alot smoother and i turned the idle mixture screws in almost a full turn.
i'd say that i found my problem, hopefully in the morning it will be a different car.
it just runs smoother after messing with it tonight.
I appreciate your input 91L98Z28. I dont know if it will drive different or be faster so the 750VS may still be in the future but atleast the darn thing idles now. i will try to get pics tomorrow, i have been busy and havent had time.
Thanks again. Jason

 

i got home after work and took my car out and i am alot happier with it. it will idle now when its cold. it is alot quiter too i guess thats because combustion is happening in the cylinder now instead of out the exhaust. it still needs jetted up or a bigger carb but it feels alot better in low-mid RPMS. I will be posting some pics tonight, my buddy is coming over with his digital camera.
thanks again. :lala:


oh buy the way 91L98Z28, on your 71 with the double hump heads, did you have power steering on it, and if so was it with the long style water pump. i still dont know what to do about this problem. the head on the passenger side has a hole brazed in it for the new style alternator now i need power steering.

 

actually, it looks like i need to make a correction to my previous posts.

my 71 had "double hump" heads, but not "fuelie" heads. (All fuelie heads are double hump heads, not all double hump heads are fuelie heads). Anyhow, my heads have all the standard accessory holes, so the alternator and power steering and whatnot bracketry all bolted up just fine as stock.

I say had because that motor lived 80,000 miles of HARD abuse and finally developed a rod knock. So it comes out for a rebuild and unknown future, and a 400 with fastburn heads and a mecahnical roller cam is going in....

 

finally here are the pics

 

engine

 

engine no air cleaner

 

griffin 31x19 radiator w/ stock TBI fan

 

holley regulator, that doesnt work and some AN fittings

 

interior with tach, no gauge pod yet, this car was underwater when i got it

 

last one, summit rearend girdle and mufflers are under the seats right now, only temporary till i get it to the muffler shop, i didnt want to break it in open header

 

this is what it used to look like

 

I think I like the new look better

Here's the only pic I have of my 71.. I spent my college years in the Oregon hills, and it snowed during the winter. pic was taken in '97 or '98.. since then I'm back in sunny california, no more snow on the 71.