Now before you answer this post, just humble yourself and realize that yes, GM is a MILLION times better than ford will EVER be. We all know that, that's why we have the cars we do. I have a 1979 LTD II that needs rebuilt (has 302) and I was just wondering now that I have an engine on a stand. And please. . .think before you reply. I'm just wondering, I'm sure some of you have wondered this.

------------------
1984 Firebird SE
1985 Camaro z28 305 engine T-5 Five Speed Tranny, 92 Camaro Leather Seats Console, carpet everything. Soon to put in 700R4 and 427CI. (Hopefully.
To view my car go to:

http://geocities.com/jmboriss/bluecar.html

It is for sale, asking $2000.

 

yes it is possible, you will need to drill out the frame mounts, also use the ford trans and driveshaft with adapter u-joint that will work, any engine can fit into pretty much any car with a little work.

 

you need to put in a rear sump oil pan if I remember. Ford has the pump in the front. I asked this before when my friend totaled his convertable GT.

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-Tas
'89 Formula WS-6

305, TBI, 700R4, P.A.W. 14x3 open element with K&N, Milodon 160* thermo, functional Formula hood, cross-flow Flowmaster, '99z28 rear pipes and tips, Hooker 1-5/8" 50 state legal headers, Dynomax 3" I pipe (PN 44063 and 43248)
Super GRK_Taz World
F-Body Dual Exaust
EFI & Intake Options

 

ick.... thats all im gonna say so this post doesnt get locked on profanity,


jkjk....

 

Yes it can be done with alot of hard work and alot of money.But remeber,the 302 is a great motor that has been kicking our asses for over ten years.I personaly like both and would pick either over a stinking rice burner any day.

 

Kicking whose ***? Speak for yourself, I have no problems with them (F*rd 302s), they are easy pickings, even with my (stock Q-Jet carbed) 305. I've been kicking their posterior for alot longer than any 10 years, and I haven't noticed anything to the contrary more recently except that their induction system during the 80s and early 90s didn't happen to involve any mistakes like those stupid long-tube runners that GM stuck F cars and Vettes with. Get rid of that, and you'd be amazed how much of their supposed "superiority" evaporates.

My question would be "why"... most people want to go the other way. I can't tell you haow many people I've helped put SBCs into Model Ts and the like. Those guys )the sensible ones anyway) have no brand loyalty in the face of superiority.

But like the other post hinted at, F*rd puts the oil sump & pickup at the front of the motor, I guess so that the oil all goes away from the pickup and the motor blows up if you're not careful. I've seen some rear-sump setups for their motors though.

------------------
"So many Mustangs, so little time..."
ICON Motorsports

 

You say you can beat them,but I find that hard to believe.It can be done,not by stock standards.Ford is not the enemy here,but the rice burner is.Any motor you can stuff in the engine bay of an F-body is great.Be uniqe if you want to.That is what car crafting is all about.

 

Hey, I have to agree, I think someone has a little too much pride in their car. I know from experience that a 305 of pretty much any caliber will not run with a 5.0 rustang. Dad has an 87 with exhaust, intake and gears and i have pretty much the equal for mods in my LO3 and it isn't even close! Now don't jump on me, I'm not a Ford fan at all, I love our cars and wouldn't trade it for the world, lets face it stangs are ugly *** cars, but I also know that there is no way I could touch a you know what with my car, short of a 125 shot of nitrous. Seriously, give credit where credit is due. And for real, either car is an easy pick over a beer canned exhaust mousie powered rice machine!

[This message has been edited by dmair5_0 (edited November 12, 2001).]

 

Question: Why is a stock 302 faster than a stock 305? Shouldn't they pretty much be the same? My 79 LTD II that weights probably a million tons (It's the big blue boat in the signature) can still burn rubber.
I'm sure if were to put in a stock 305, I don't know. . . . As much as we hate fords (or they made not be our 1st choice) we've got to admitt, ford has some pretty good stuff.

------------------
1984 Firebird SE
1985 Camaro z28 305 engine T-5 Five Speed Tranny, 92 Camaro Leather Seats Console, carpet everything. Soon to put in 700R4 and 427CI. (Hopefully.
To view my car go to:

http://geocities.com/jmboriss/bluecar.html

It is for sale, asking $2000.

 

I don't feel obligated to defend my car in any way. I have the chassis dyno sheet that says my motor puts out about 260-265 HP with it installed in the car, exactly as I drive it every day; this didn't come from "our bolt-on thing gives 8 HP!!" added up for every little mod, or from some software simulator, or even an engine dyno run in an unrealistic configuration like some magazine article. This is the real, actual world. I've been building performance cars since before alot of the people on this board were born, it's not like I don't know what's out there, so I'll just leave it at that.

The F*rd 302 in carbed form like your LTD motor isn't too much different, performance-wise, from a carbed 305 of the same era. My 78 El Camino 305 2-barrel with 2.41 gears will burn rubber too, and it's still just a 17-second car. Don't use that as your criterion for how powerful the motor is.

I think it would cost you far less to go to the junkyard and buy a carbed 305 and stick it in your car, and you'd end up with about the same performance level with a fraction of the work as well as costing less.

The issue with the Mustangs is that the intake that F*rd used is a short-runner design. There is no "tuning" attempt to improve low-end torque at the expense of high-end horsepower, like TPI has. Consequently, the Mustang motors had lots of top end, where TPI motors have none at all. I would suspect that if you put a similar intake to the 302 one on a 305 (it would look something like a Miniram or LT1 intake) you'd find that the 305 isn't really all that much different from the 302 after all. Or, the other way around, if F*rd had invented TPI and put it on the Mustang, then that would be the car getting discontinued by its mfr., not ours.

Also keep in mind that, on average, Mustangs are 200-300 lbs lighter than our cars. That's about 7 to 8%. That means that we have to have that much more power than them (on average) to have equal acceleration, which is something around 20 HP. Getting a TPI 305 to put out 20 more HP than a Mustang 302 is indeed a pretty tall order, and looking at it that way explains completely why TPI 305s get beat by Mustangs.

That difference in the intake is also why the Mustang boards are full of "what do I have to do to my car to get it to run with the LS1 or even the LT1" posts, not the other way around like you see on this board.

------------------
"So many Mustangs, so little time..."
ICON Motorsports

 

A friend of mine, Wayne Miller, and his father put a 305 in a Capri, and then, after he wrecked it, they put a nice 350 into a 87 Mustang. The only alterations they needed were to usa a BMFH on the firewall for the HEI, and they used 3/8 steel to move the motor mounts forward. It works great to this day. I don't see why it wouldn't work the other way around.



------------------
Joshua Johnston
1991 Z-28
350, T-5, K&N, Ported Vortec heads, Edelbrock RPM, Holley 750 D.P., HEI, 11.07:1 CR, Comp Cams Roller-.510"/.520"-282*/288* dur., Shorty Headers, Dual 2.5 Exhaust, Dynomax Bullet Mufflers, T&R Motorsports custom air intake, Bald tires

 

anything can be done with time and money. I too had a 79 Capri with a CHEVY 350/350 combo......boy did i get alot of dirty looks from people! :P

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85 Berlinetta Iroc exterior NOW 454 powered, 4.10 gears, 275/60/15 Hoosier Quicktimes freshly installed th350 3200 stall, shift kit, reworked valvebody, Megashifter, Biondo linelock ..........YES, it's street driven!

check it out at http://www.bsronline.net

 

I thought I'd just state my opinion on this discussion. From what I understand the Ford is capable of more reliable power because of its bore/stroke combination. The 305 was never really designed for making gobs of power. It was conceived in the smog era for reliable and cheap transportation. I think that a comparison between the Ford 302 and the GM 305 is apples to oranges. The 350/302 comparison is more valid. Even more valid of course is the GM 302/Ford 302 comparison but since GM 302s are as rare as a liberal in the NRA its not practical. Of course, everybody knows that the GM 302 will kick the Ford's *** all over the road. Personally, I like the 305. It power my daily driver and serves its purpose flawlessly, to get me from point a to b without **** blowing up. But that's off topic so........
bsa

 

hey RB83L69, i am not followin what u r sayin. the 305 has a totally different bore / stroke than that 302, this difference alone is huge in terms of power output and rpm range. and if you go look at one of the millions of 5.0 stangs around you will see that they have a long runner type intake just like us TPI guys have. the 302 is much better than a 305, and when you put it in a lighter car, it is faster. if you really want to install a motor worth your time and money, use a 350. i like 305 motors, heck i have one, but they are just not ideal for high performance. also, the small block chevy is the cheapest motor to build, why would you build an expensive motor, that would be expensive to install, when you could install a dirt cheap motor in for next to nothin? doesnt make sense to me.

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86 IROC
43,000 miles
305/700R4/3.23 gears
maroon, gold stickers, black interior, T-Tops.

current mods.
shift kit
headers
cat back exhaust

mods planned for this winter
cam
Adjustable fuel pressure regulator
port and polish intake and heads
lookin to run low 14s maybe squeak out a 13.9 with my stock chip

[This message has been edited by 1MeanZ (edited November 19, 2001).]

 

RB83L69 is tottaly right on all points. If you got the engine and it's free...well if you have some spare time go a head,whorst case scenario , YOU'LL LEARN. Making a swap can't take THAT long.

For 305,they are kickass engine when you think about it 25-30 mp/g... you can find a tpi with 200 hp ...just with the LT1 intake it would probably make around 220-225 hp ...why not trow some headers and 3.73 gears and your in business to beat rustangs.

------------------
LT1 POWERED
HEADMANS HEADERS
300 HP backed with a limited slip, 2.73.
Top speed reached: 150 mph

EATS MUSTANGS FOR BREAKFAST

 

Um wrong. What the hell are you talking about? The ford 302 is totaly tuned for torque AND horsepower. It has long runners that make up for its short stroke big bore combo. The long runners naturaly give torque and the small storke big bore combo gives HP. Put them together and you have the best of both. A chevy version of this intake would be the SLP T ram. The reason TPIs have no top end is because the runners have too many kinks and bends in them before they get to the intake.

The chevy 305 has a small bore large stroke combo which give lots of torque but it would need heavy duty parts to be able to spin enough to make great HP.

The new Ford (260HP) 4.6s have and even smaller bore and longer stroke than the chevy 305 but they have strong parts that let them spin high. Not the 4500RPM limit my 305 TBI car has or 5500RPM the 305 TPI has. They also have Long runner that are big like a Performer RPM type of intake.



------------------
-Tas
'89 Formula WS-6

305, TBI, 700R4, P.A.W. 14x3 open element with K&N, Milodon 160* thermo, functional Formula hood, cross-flow Flowmaster, '99z28 rear pipes and tips, Hooker 1-5/8" 50 state legal headers, Dynomax 3" I pipe (PN 44063 and 43248)
Super GRK_Taz World
F-Body Dual Exaust
EFI & Intake Options

 

The last time I looked at an EFI 5.0 Ford, the intake runners appeared much shorter than a TPI. The Ford is longer than a Miniram, but they don't do the "cross-over" the Manifold like a TPI. It's more of a "straight down" setup from the plenum. I would have to measure the intake manifold, but it appeared to be less than 12" which is a heck of a lot shorter than a TPI's 21".

 

Someone delete this post, PLEASE!!!

------------------
'82 Firebird, dead stock, 9 bolt disc rear, over 200,000 miles and still going strong, more to come...
http://www.spinfrenzy.com/stingerssx...easures.html#4

 

Yes, mods, you can delete this, I just wanted to know if a ford engine could be bolted into a GM car easily. I didn't mean to start any fights!

------------------
1984 Firebird SE
1985 Camaro z28 305 engine T-5 Five Speed Tranny, 92 Camaro Leather Seats Console, carpet everything. Soon to put in 700R4 and 427CI. (Hopefully.
To view my car go to:

http://geocities.com/jmboriss/bluecar.html

It is for sale, asking $2000.

 

hey if you need an engine i have a 301 pontiac with tons of new parts, comp cam, complete turn key engine for 300$ in the chicago area

 

No, thanks, I've heard that 301's really suck anyways. Plus, 300 would be too much.

 

The TPI isnt 21" if you measure it from the intake face to the plenum either, its about 14" if you do it that way. The Ford intake is probably close to 12", keep in mind the plenum is off to one side of the intake manifold.

Looks like everyone has their 2 cents in along with other things... consider this locked.