http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SBC-C...spagenameZWDVW

Just wondering. I am starting my research into turbos and figured I would see what ebay has to offer.

I am going to read the stickies now.

What about this kit:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/84-93...spagenameZWDVW

Probably crap, but just wondering. I make 344 RWHP N/A and want to get up to 500 RWHP. So I don't need a lot of PSI.

 

I have contemplating those headers myself.
Heck I figure even if they are no good, they make a nice template to work off of. I have tried numerous time to get a set of BBS headers, but he never responds. They had a group purchase a while back, but I was in Austrailia at the time. Heck they break take them off buy a stainless header fab kit from hooker and start cutting and welding.

 

True. I am just getting into doing the research. Like today is my first day. haha. I have no idea if they are any good. I did know about the GP from before but then I was playing with N20.

What about those log style headers? They are cheap and people say they work just as good if not better...

 

skip the second auction entirely. It includes no turbo headers and the intercooler should be dual inlet single outlet. I'm still messing with my headers to get them to fit as well. If you already bought that other cam that was smaller and installed it, you'd have to pull it back out for a turbo friendly cam all over again.

 

I have not spent a dime on the car for a WHILE now. I never got that other cam or anything like that. The guy I was going to have it done by thinks it might be a small base circle cam and that is going to cost more.

I also talked to a different shop and they seem to think that running a hyd. cam is a bad idea all around. So I am WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY too confused to start spending $.

I figured, SCREW IT, take the car off the road for the winter and start planning a forced induction set since we all know I am going to go there at some point, why not just skip the middle step and start building a simple turbo setup.

For the headers that I listed, seems kinda OK. Since there are not a TON of options out there, I figured I would see what people say about them. They are cheap as heck too.

Figure, save up, get a new cam, (lifters and springs too if need be), buy these headers, get a used turbo off ebay or something, then send out the carb to get setup for blow through and be all set just pushing like 5 PSI. That way I can sell my 2210s for like $300, get these other headers. Use the Vic. Jr. that I have. (never installed the Air-Gap) sell the Air gap for $250. Then spend $1000 or $1500 on all the rest.

I THINK my motor is around 10:1 but I am not sure. But running 93 all the time like I do anyways, and pushing very few PSI, I think I can get the 340 that it makes now up to 450-500. I dunno.



Anyways, its a bit of a crazy plan, but it might work.

If it doesn't, then I am just going to get the car re-dyno tunned and say screw it all till I move out and get a house after I get out of school. Then toss a huge hunk down for a new modern motor.

 

i'm running a hyd cam, don't see the problem with it if you're not revving it to the moon. www.theturboforums.com Poke around there for a week or so before posting anything. use their search feature and you'll be fine. I wouldn't even bother with 5psi of boost. Might as well just spray it IMO. I'm planning on running 12-15 initially and I don't think that is a huge amount of boost either. With 10:1 compression I would honestly just put some spray on it with the smaller cam that was suggested and try it out. I'll be above $1500 for my turbo setup and I got my turbos super cheap and am attempting to run the cheap ebay turbo headers too.

 

Interesting. Do you have any pics of your setup so far?

I just have SO much $ in my car and have it built to be sooo bullet proof that I feel stupid only having like 330 HP. Probably what I will have with the intake and cam swap. Granted it will be more fun and probably be more than fine for street driving and even MORE fun with the 200 shot on it. I dunno. I guess I just figured I was going to go forced at somepoint anyway, so why not just skip this middle step....

that was my mental thought process... might be over shooting in the end. I mean this car is a DD for 3 seasons a year so. Maybe i will just save the $ and install the cam and intake myself. I have never done it but I think I can do it with a little help. Save me $400 and then spend that for a full day of dyno tunning the setup as well as the N20.

Problem is that I don't know if I need to get a cam with a small base circle. I don't know if my cam is set up like that or not. I guess I can just dive into the motor and find out when I get to it... and order it ASAP once I know and finish the project over the winter.... What do you think?

Good idea?

 

it'd be a waste of time and $ to run 5#. If you're going to do it, do it right the first time. Swap out pistons to lower your CR, keep everything else including heads and intake (send carb to CSU for mods). Buy that stuff in the first link and take your time buying the rest so you wont go broke. Put it all together and enjoy. (sell the n2o stuff for funding if needed)

 

Well thats what I REALLY wanna do. But I don't think I can do it financially right now. I will be getting out of colledge in 2008 and only really have like 2 grand that I can toss at this car for a while. So I am sorta up in the air about what to do.

Like make a little booste and keep the 10:1, or just get a streetable cam and call it quits till I get my own place. I just don't know.... Ugh...

Maybe I will just keep what I have and not mess with turbos yet. Right now this is my only car too!

I am borrowing my moms car to go to work everyday...

I guess I will just get a propane heater for my garage and slowly install the streetable cam and intake. Then dyno it all in the spring and call it quits till I can get out of school. Oh well. Seems like the most sane (read, un fun) thing to do.

 

what cam and intake are you running right now?

 

the biggest trickflow cam they sell and a vic. jr.

duration is 246/252 I think. I will link the cam info sheet.

Finally I can show you what I have wanted xpndbl3. It is the part list of stuff in my motor. Trickflow says it makes 500 fly HP, but I am def not seeing that in my car. I am only seeing about 400 of that fly HP that they claim. Considering an 18% drivetrain loss, which I think is a little high (right?)

Anyways, what do you think I should do?

Just keep working with my setup that I have now to make it run a nice as possible? Or get rid of it all togeather and install a smaller cam, dual plane intake and work with that?

Well here is the link:
http://www.trickflow.com/partdetail....098+150&orig=1

Please let me know what you think about any part that looks out of place or may be holding me back. I know the trickflow #s will be INFLATED, but by 100 HP, I don't think so.

 

looks like a nice combo, are you ringing it that high? it says 3500-7k on the cam spec sheet. How is your compression? Running 11:1+ or so? If not that could be part of the soggy bottom end. I see it's 72cc chambers and not 64cc, so that would give up some compression. With that lobe separation, go ahead and hit it with a 150 shot and I bet it'll wake up a ton, being that the exhaust duration is so much larger. When you're at the track, what rpm are you cross the stripe at? what et/mph? what's the car weigh? how's your shifting ability? Have you had a good dyno tune? Tried advancing/retarding timing in 1 degree increments for max hp/tq? I see you have AIM, hit me up sometime after you answer all of this. What is your WOT a/f ratio? Where is your wideband 02 sensor hooked up at in the exhaust?


whew...that should start you out. lol.

 

LOL, yeah let me start off by saying thanks for your help, I will try to fill you in as much as possible.

In a short answer no, I do not rev it up that high. I have gotten it up to about 6 once or twice. But by the time it gets up there, i am going WAY to fast and have to slow down. When I am on the highway cruising at 65 my RPMs are around 1500. Crazy. Cuz the 6 speed. at 100 MPH I am at 2300.

It is fun going 65 and down shifting and spining em up on the highway though. (only tried that once, haha)

Compression: I have no idea. I thought it was around 10.0 static and 9.X dynamic. But I have no idea and like I said the engine builder is GONE. I have his home address so I will be snail mailing him later tonight so since his e-mail and phone don't work. I have been trying to think of a cheap way to bump up my comp ratio, but there is no easy way. I have to spend quite a bit I think. And I am just don't have the $$$ for that right now. I have about a grand.

Your idea of it being soggy down low due to low comp, is exactly what I have been thinking. I shot it with a 100 shot and the motor barely made any more noise and took it like a champ. I have a 200 in there now, but have yet to tune/set it up fully.

Now to the next set of questions: Track stuff.

I have never been to one with my car. So I don't know RPM, et/MPH or weight. I can get it weighed as soon as I take it out again over at the local dump. But based on the options and stuff like that, I would bet around 3200. But who knows.

I can shift pretty quick but I am no pro. It is a T-56 with a hurst short throw. So 1-2 is fast, and 3-4 is fast. 2-3 is the hardest to do really fast, but still I can get it. ( again, no pro here).

I have had 2 dyno tunes. 1 right after the motor got tossed in the car and another when I got a new carb main body and full MSD ignition. The car only made around 310 with the first setup, then after the ign. and the new carb main body (has adj. bleeds and no choke), car makes 344 HP and 340 TQ.

Not too bad.

I have since screwed up the damn carb by trying to work on it and getting teflon take stuck in it. I cleaned it out, but I just can't get it to run like it used to, so BACK to the dyno it must go again.

I never tried adj.ret. timing 1 degree. Should i ask that to be done when I go back to the dyno next time?

My WOT AF ratio is around 12.5.

The car has no Cats and the sensor is right after the muffler in the back, Its heated. I put it there just to make life easier when taking it out to do free air calib.


my aim name is dennisbitaly. I will be on later tonight maybe, but not sure.


Fewww.... I think I covered it all.

Thanks again.

 

344 rwhp isn't anything to scoff at. What rpm was that at for peak hp? How do you mean the carb is "screwed" up? Something internally blocked? What did you change? That wideband sensor needs to be up near the collectors not in the back of the car. To do a calibration, let the car sit for 10 minutes or overnight and calibrate it. Doesn't need to be removed at all. Timing should be one of the first things done to find max power, then it will never change based on jetting, etc. Find what the motor likes and keep it there. Take the carb apart and spray carb cleaner into each of the passages to make sure they flow freely and remove the needle/seat etc, should take a few hours to clean it out good and put it back together. you could make more power at 13.0:1 at WOT on the dyno, but again without #'s for comparison you'll never know.

I just dyno'd a fox body mustang that had a built 306 with trickflow heads and a nice cam and it came out to 325hp/340tq on a dynojet and the car runs high 11s since it's so light and is set up perfectly. He made max hp at 13.0:1 but it can vary car to car. We picked up 25 hp in going from 12.4:1 to 13.0:1 I had us doing a dyno pull every 8 minutes basically over an hour and a half, with jet changes or timing changes. Of course I work faster than the dyno tuner would, but we paid by the hour and got out of there under $200, and got to make two simulated 1/4 mile passes as well, which where within 1mph and .1 of what the car runs on the track in the real world.

 

I don't have the dyno sheet in front of me, but it was peaked out around 6300 I think. Not really sure though. i generally spent most of my time looking at the TQ. It has over 300 by 3000, and stays above 300 till the HP starts to drop at 6800. Around there.

When I say "screwed up" I mean I messed with the idle screws and stuff and I just can't get it to NOT stumble. It wants to fall on its face now. I can't get the pump shot set up right. I took appart the side that was having the problem and flushed it out with compressed air. I am pretty sure it is all clean now.

As for the 02, I am not sure. I get conflictiong data on where to put it. The instructions say clearly that if you have no cats, it makes no difference where the O2 is. That makes sence too. I mean the dyno guys must attach a pipe to the tail pipe and read from there right? SO thats pretty much what I am doing. Cuz fresh off the dyno, the AF #s look PERFECT. 14.7 ilde. 12.5 under load and I think around 12 WOT. Not sure thogh.

Maybe I will just have them tune it and I will play with the timing and stuff.

 

I bought the first set for my turbo project over winter. The flanges are fairly thick at 3/8". The crossover pipe is 2.5".
I am a fabrication welder/fitter and the tig welds are decent. You will want to do some porting/diegrinding where the wastegate merges into the collector below the turbo flange and a few other places.
I paid $180 for them on ebay not the $280 buy it now price.
I'm not too worried about them breaking but if they do i'll just take it to work and fix it.

I will get some beter pictures this weekend.

 

since you have a wideband why can't you fix it? Set the idle screws all 1.5 turns out, start the car. Slowly bring them back in until you get upper 14s for idle. Then you'd want upper 14s, even 15s if the car will take it for cruise jets. Now you may have to play with high speed air bleeds to make WOT where it needs to be, but you could then have great gas mileage and also get good WOT a/f ratio if needed. You don't "play" with the timing, that would be another thing to get done on the dyno, you won't notice up or down HP loss that small, but the dyno or the drag strip will show you. The reasoning behind the dyno operator also putting the wideband at the back of the pipes is there isn't an wind blowing around to throw off the readings like there would be while driving. You should be able to set this up yourself easily enough with that wideband. Or fly me out and I'll show you how to set it up

 

So you think that maybe I should just stick with what I have got and get it tunned better?

My idle is perfect. Like dead on. Problem for me is the pump shot not coming in at the right time and the right amount. Also the part throttle power is eratic and unstable. Maybe I will just save my $, and pay for a nice full tune. Forget the cam and move on.

Then I can have the dyno try out carb spacers, N20 and fully tune the carb. I have only been around this stuff for a little while, so I still need to log on more hours before I can really "tune" the carb. Right now, it is just frustrating as hell since I have tried so many things, and live soooo far away from a track.

I have $1,000 at the ready right now that i can toss as anything I want. I think that I will just go with a tune and hold on to the dual plane that I have till a later date.

I have been talking to other dyno shops and one said the car will run much better with a vac adv. dist... So maybe I will get one, or try to mod the one I have with the just the inernals. I have to call MSD to see if that is even possible. hope so.

OK, well the dyno shop in RI is supposed to call me today... Hopefully I can give this project wheels soon and move it along.

 

Part throttle is at what a/f ratio that makes it erratic? Pump shot is what color cam and in what hole? Did you adjust it per manufacturers specs so the slightest movement of throttle causes it to squirt? If you have a tip in stumble and had the wideband located near the collectors it would react quicker and you'd be able to see what the A/F ratio does. Honestly with a wideband I'd mess with it a bit before spending big coin on a dyno tune. There's snow on the ground here, so I don't know what your weather is like over there, or if the car is put away for the season.

 

There is snow here and more tomorrow. 3" tomorrow. Sux.

Lets see. I had the stock pump shot in there till it started acting strange. Then I tried moving it a little with no luck so I put it back. Then I noticed the floats were low and that seemed to fix the problem. And it drove with some ***** all day as I screwed around an idustrial park. Then a couple days later, I tried to take it out and it was running strange again. Thanksgiving I think it was. I wapped to slightly larger jets, seemed to help. But the pump was still not accting right. So I swapped it out for the red one. It was falling on its face right off the bat, and the red one in hole 1 seemed to have a much bigger bump. So I tried that, and BAM works great. Finaly, oh finally I was able to run rich for a second, ALL the damn time the car kept acting like it was running out of gas, either jets, or pump shot. So it was fine for another day. Then I check it out and let her warm up a day or two later and go around the block. Do 30 MPH and hold the throttle at 50% for about 20 seconds. It is OK at first, but then starts to start running lean. So I am like WTF! I have been messing with this thing for so long, but still can't get it.

I am kinda thinking I should start over.

Like get the idle to be good. (Which it is.) Go back to the pink pump cam with it in hole 1, and better analyse the respone. Also figure out what jets it needs, cuz that is unlcear since it is acting like it wants more juet, but 67s are in there now which is already 2 sizes up from what the car got dyno tunned with. So I am super confused.

Due to these reasons, I feel like I need to just pay to get it done. I just don't know where to start.

-Bigger jets? Play with cams? change some other thing I don't know about yet? I just have no idea.

Only problem that I can think that I did, was that I didn't adjust the pump shot lever screw to have it squirt right as the pedal got pushed. I mean it started to squirt right away, but due ot the bigger initial resting place, not all the pump was available. This could be way it was falling short, but I dought it.


UGHHHHHHH.............. I have a grand to toss at the problem and I want it to be sorted out before spring so thats why I want to just pay for it so I can take it off the road allready.

 

what's your fuel pressure like? do you have a guage on it? The car should run fine at cruise in the upper 14s no problem. what is the A/F ratio when it starts acting weird? You do know that temp will affect jetting as well, so if you dyno it on a 90 degree humid day, that'll be different than a 30 degree winter day as well. Is it just tip in that it stumbles? if so go up on squirter size then, leave the pump as set by factory for now. See if the squirter size change helps which I had to up the rears from 31 to 35 and now it works great. my front is a 31 shot, which I'd assume would be similar for you.

 

Yeah my squirters are 31s as you stated.

I have my fuel pressure set to 7.9 DEAD ON. It never ever moves. I have a gauge on the fuel line, that sux. Little summit one. And a very nice one with a daiphram that 2/5/8" in the interior. I used a pressure gauge from my lab at work to check the pressure against the autometer and it was right on! So I know I am getting good readings from that.

The A/F start wacking out and going to 17+ even to 20 if I stay on it part throttle.

And yeah I am very aware of the pressure and temp changes that come with the different seasons. I am trying to account for that too. Thats why I tried just adding a slightly bigger jet, to compensate for the cooler, more dense air.

Now it doesn't stumble on tip in at all. It is only after driving for 10 sec.+ that it acts like it is running out of gas. Full throttle it stubles though the crappy part and runs fine mashed to the floor. Meaning that the secondary side is doing its job just fine. It looks like the problem lies in the pump shot, squirters and jets. Just can't get the right combo.

Maybe I need to play with the squirters. I may ask the dyno shop if they can do that. I dunno. Or I can keep trying.

Sux that it is night time by the time I get home from work. If not I would try to get some tunning done today. UGH....

I guess I will just try to get the best adive I can and when I get a chance (after I buy a heater) then I will give the ideas a shot.

Or tell the dyno shop what you have said and tell them to try those ideas out. I told the that this time I want to be there to see the tunning and maybe help out.

 

go up 4 jet sizes on the primaries, you want to be on the cruise jets, not the power valve as well, so what power valve are you running? duct tape a vacuum guage to the windshield to make sure you don't drop below it while trying to get an accurate cruise jet. Pump shot has NOTHING to do with cruising keeping your foot at the same spot, nor does the squirters. up the primaries 4 and see if that helps. FYI i'm running 78/88 in my carb, so jets in the 60s are small still.

Squirters and pump shot are for quick stabs of the throttle
PV is when the vacuum drops below it's vacuum rating, it enriches the cruise jets
primary jets are for cruise and will hold steady as long as your foot doesn't move. Also a typical small jet change is 4 sizes.

 

You probably already have taken this into account, but tuning a carb under different weather conditions will throw you off and make it harder. The Summer jets will differ from what feels right for Winter. It will need more pump shot in the Winter.

 

yea told him about that earlier and also in post #21

No idea why he's trying to drive it with snow on the ground

 

Haha. I have not even taken it out since it got cold. I just want to know what to try when I do take it out. (I think you guys knew that, haha.)

I know the pump shot is only for the off the line stuff. I am just saying that there was a stumble there before and I think I got rid of it by swapping to the red cam in the #1 spot. I guess I can try bigger jet changes. Oh and I have a permanent vac gauge on the a-pillar. So I can see what the vac is all the time.

I have a 45 and a 65. The 65 is in there now.

When you say "cruise jet" are you talkig about the primary side? No right.??

"PV is when the vacuum drops below it's vacuum rating, it enriches the cruise jets. primary jets are for cruise and will hold steady as long as your foot doesn't move."

So there are 3 different "jets" to worry about right.

Cruise, primary and secondary?

1. If so to find the right primary I give the car part throttle consistently and see what she reads on the O2 and tune the jet size that way?

2. Secondaries are the same way, accept you use 100% throttle right?

3. The crusie jets are what get affected by the PV so if I am opening and closing it, it will make the car erratic? So I am sorta confused about how to tune that part well since the idle is great, but right when I get going is strange.





I guess I will toss the pink cam back in, then check 50% throttle for the primary side. Change jets till I am happy. Then get the idle dialed in. Then see what happens to vac. as I get on it.

What SHOULD happen? Should I only be hitting my PV when I really lay on it or when?


Sorry for all the newbie Q's but I feel like I am finally starting to get this all.

 

cruise jets are primary jets.

secondary jets are basically for WOT tuning.

1. yes hold the throttle consistently at 55mph or so at 2500-2800ish to make sure you're off the idle circuit but still on the primary circuit only not the secondary circuit. you want upper 14s here, can go even leaner if the motor won't stumble

2. secondaries are making a full throttle pass try 3rd or 4th gear all the way to shift point and shoot for 12.5-13.0:1 here

3. cruise jets are not affected by the PV at all. The PV is fuel enrichment once the vacuum drops below the rated number. Staying above that vacuum number is how you will setup the primary "cruise" jets.

 

Ok, I think I got ya. Then the only real tricky part will be getting the right pump cam. But I will go back to the pink and start there.

 

i'd stop messing with pump cams and just up the squirter if you have, also with a bigger cam if you're going to mash it from a stop you need to let the motor rev high, 3500 or so for the launch easing the clutch out. This motor will chug in the lower rpms because of the larger cam, so always keep it higher if you're getting on it

 

yeah, I have learned that over the last 3400 miles I have driven it. If I am up around 4K it just bites the ground and I am off. I will stop messing with pump cams. I think I have a good grasp of what to do when it get warmer out. Thx.

 

good luck if you have questions in the spring let me know. I'll be doing some new extreme tuning come then for my combo, should be quite the learning experience, hope I don't hear a BOOM in the first minute hah.