snowflake

92 RS, (was 305/5speed). ls swap. I used PSI conversion complete kit for 6.0 T56. All the original RS TPI wiring is still intact for now. Nothing hacked, just all unplugged. The only thing used from the original wire harness is the starter harness.
I could not get the car to spin let alone get the starter to click. I posted a thread on this and got a few good replies. QwkTrip help with a awesome link for vats. Vats new to me but kinda confusing. I did understand some LOL.

I pulled the driver kick panel to look for starter relay and it not there, Not sure if it helps but this is also a EX DPS car. Relay behind kick panel LIke this

This is all I could find for a relay close to the upper kick panel. Looks like some one already jumped wires. All I need is to get power to the starter from ignition key. I dont want a push button.

snowflake

Second picture shows no relay behind kick panel. Last pic shows a yellow wire piggy back on orange with black stripe

snowflake

snowflake

I even tried this

scooter

iTrader: (11)

So you only used the purple wire from the C100 so far?

As for the inside, the relay with the green, yellow, yellow and black/yellow wires are to the VATS relay.

Don't listen to that last youtube video, that guy doesn't know WTF he is talking about.

snowflake

You mean the solenoid wire that runs to the starter? Yes, that and the red big hot wires.

snowflake

can this be bypassed like the starter relay? I dont need the vats security at all. Im going to pick up some resisters tomorrow and see if I can bypass with that to spin my starter.

scooter

iTrader: (11)

Did you even read the VATS thread? You just need to ground the Black/Yellow wire and the relay will work

snowflake

I can do almost everything, But electrical let alone trying to read it makes me feel retarded. Just not my field. I can burn your house down by changing a light bulb. My house to LOL.

snowflake

There are 2 yellow. Is it the skinny or fat one? I cut the blk and one of the yellows and what? Ground to chassis? Im serious I dont understand this stuff. I need it layed out like im in elementary school.

scooter

iTrader: (11)

lol

No the "/" means that it is the same wire, so it is the BLACK wire with the yellow stripe you cut and put it to ground, that will "enable" the relay.

The large Green and Yellow wires are the actual starter circuit. The small yellow is the other side of the relay control

If you put in a security system, you can use that for the starter interrupt

snowflake

OK great, I tried it. Cut the blk and yellow, grounded wire from relay and to my SURPRISE it started!!!! J/K nothing happened. Im going to try the resisters tomorrow. OHM my key today at 3.000K

scooter

iTrader: (11)

If you don't have the factory ECM, and you grounded the black wire, the resistors are not going to do anything. You did the VATS "bypass" now. You cut the black and grounded the relay side of the wire, right? not the other side of the cut wire?

You have power inside the car? If so, you should check for voltage on the big yellow or green, and also the little yellow while you have the key in the crank position. You should have voltage to the Yellow wire while cranking, that means the circuit has power. If you have power on the green while cranking, it means the relay is good and the problem is after that. If there is no power to the green while cranking, it likely means the relay is bad, or you didn't ground the wire properly.

snowflake

Yes I grounded the relay side. Yes power inside the car also.. I have power everywhere except to the starter. I will start at the starter today and go backwards if the resisters are not going to work for me. Just so stumped, everything was fine with never any problems
till the swap. Thanks for making it easy to understand scooter!

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

The resistors aren’t going to help, they are only used to send a signal to the ecm from the passkey module. Also they ground the relay via the passkey module. Do like scooter says check for power at the relay.

Aviator857

Was your car cranking/running before you started the LS swap? On mine I kept the VATS operational for the starter disable, you do not need the factory ECU to do this, but you must replace the ground to the VATS module that is lost when you disconnect the C207 connector when removing the ecu, just ground with port m on the c207.

The PSI harness has the 4 wires you have to splice in switched power, constant power and ground connections required. But it doesn't provide for the starter solenoid wiring that I can see on their website.

How do you have the starter wired? Draw it out on paper take a picture of it with your phone and post it (it doesn't have to be pretty).

Your car was originally a 5 speed so your wiring should be ignition switch, vats relay, clutch pedal switch, then to the bulkhead connector, then under the hood this wire should run straight to the starter. If your car was originally an auto there is the neutral safety switch at the old shifter that needs to be bypassed.

Question are you assuming its not working because the starter isn't spinning over or have you verified that you are not getting voltage when turning the key? That is if you use a wire from the starter solenoid to the battery does the starter spin over?

Start at the ignition switch at the lower part of the column (its not up at the key) when you turn the key to crank do you get power (use a test light or multi-meter), if yes move to the vats relay, you should get 12v on both of the big wires with the key in the crank position. if yes move to the clutch pedal, test when you turn the key the input wire has 12v, then press the clutch in and turn the key and test that you have 12v on the output. Since vats is already hacked I would completely remove the relay and just connect the big wires together.

If the clutch or vats relay fail the test you can jumper the large wires together to bypass, once you get it working put in a more suitable solution.

It is possible that with the t56 master for the clutch you are not able to press the clutch all the way down to engage the safety switch.

The schematics are in this post https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/elec...pass-vats.html have someone hold the key in crank position and check each connector, relay, switch between the ignition switch and the starter relay for 12vdc until you find the break.

scooter

iTrader: (11)

I wasn't even thinking about his car being an auto or manual. That's a good point, I am not sure whether he said whether he converted his car to a manual, or if was originally manual

snowflake

305/T5 before the swap. Thanks everyone. I'll check everything tonite with updates tomorrow.

scooter

iTrader: (11)

Yeah, double check that the neutral safety switch is fully being depressed with the pedal.

snowflake

Well, seems I was chasing a ghost.After trying everything you guys helped me with I had no luck and At that point I figure it was not my VATS after testing relay.(THANKS Aviator857), I started from the starter backwards.. No power to solenoid on starter.
But I had power in the solenoid wire after the firewall. I knew at that point I had a break. I checked entire engine harness and found a freakin RELAY between the solenoid wire. Cut it out and spliced back together. BAM car cranks Now!!!!

ONE MORE PROBLEM!! After the first crank, Sometimes I have to toggle the key back and forth to get it to crank. Could that be why it may have had a realy? it acts like it dont have enough volts and gets starter clicks like batt is dying.
if I toggle key on and off on and off it will crank at that point.

The white and yellow wire were on solenoid wire.

THANKS TO EVERYONE WHO HELPED ME AND MADE IT EASY TO UNDERSTAND VATS.

scooter

iTrader: (11)

That was probably either for an aftermarket alarm or a poor mans cut off.

If the yellow and white were on the circuit, they were way too small for the current load.

It is possible the ignition switch, on the base of the steering column, needs to be adjusted or replaced and that is why you have to jiggle the key

snowflake

Yup, my thoughts also. The switch on lower part of column.

scooter

iTrader: (11)

They are easy to adjust. Just loosen the screws enough so it can move, spin the lock cylinder and then slide the switch down toward the firewall and tighten the screws

Aviator857

Do you have access to a amp meter (the type that clamps on the wire), if so I would see how many amps the starter is pulling on that wire, it should not be a lot but I don't have the specs on what a solenoid would pull.

The factory wiring is going to have fusible links at the end this is a short peice of wire that is designed to burn up if too much current is pulled. These can partially break which means you may not be getting enough current to the solenoid.

You could use a starter relay under the hood to work around this but its best if you can figure out why you starter solenoid wire can't provide enough current because eventually it may not proved enough current for the relay either.

If you don't have a amp meter then you can sort of gauge it by doing the following.
Hook a 12 gauge wire to the solenoid lug and run it out so you can safely access it. Take a old fog light or head light and wire it to this wire and ground the bulb's ground terminal to your engine block. When you turn the key if this light is real dim on a non crank turn cycle but bright on successful turn then its a current issue, if it doesn't come on at all try it with a low power light. The fog light and the solenoid will both be acting as a load on the circuit.

My gut says its probably the ignition switch on the column, they are pretty cheap and is a wear item. You can test this buy un plugging the ignition switch and then use jumper wires to act like the switch. It will have a constant 12v, a hot when run/crank, a hot when crank wire. Make a Y jumper cable with spade terminals. On the pig tail Plug the singe side into the constant 12, one of the Y's to the run/crank hot, then touch the other to the hot when crank. Do this several times if it never fails to work replace the switch. If it does fail then the circuit weakness is likely down stream in either the VATS or the clutch switch.

IF the switch is deemed good, bypass the clutch switch in the same method with a 12 gauge jumper wire.

Seems like the wiring in this car may be a little hacked, if all else fails rewire the circuit from the switch, to the clutch pedal to the bulkhead, leaving VATS out completely.

If you are still having issue then its the power supply wire that powers the body, this wire too has a fusable link in the end where it use to connect to the starter, not sure how you are supplying the main body power in your new set up but worth inspecting.

snowflake

THANKS

snowflake

THANKS

scooter

iTrader: (11)

I am 99% sure there is no protection on the cranking circuit, nor the ignition coil and the headlights in these cars. The only fusable link is the two main power wires that go to the C100, and those are what protect those three circuits.

eznug

Are you able to use a regular hood ?