Allright, this summer I plan on prepping my car more for road race and auto-x, but it's still a street driven car.

Right now I'm deciding on shocks for my car. I like the Koni Yellows, but they are quite pricey at $200+ each for the fronts. I was looking at the Koni Reds, and noticed they are still just under $200 for each, while they seem to be about the same price for the rears, at about $100 a piece. These seem kind of pointless to me, as for virtually the same price, your losing probably some performance since these aren't adjustable.

Now, I know Koni is a very well known, trusted and proven brand. I haven't heard much about KYB AGX shocks though. They are externally adjustable just like the Koni shocks, however I'm not sure if they carry the liftime warrenty that the Konis do. They are much cheaper however, at only $120 a piece for front shocks and $90 a piece for rears, MUCH cheaper then the Konis are.

Does anyone have any personal experiance with any of the shocks I mentioned? If so, was it good or bad? If you've tried more then one of the above options, then please let me know whether you were pleased with one over the other, or if one was worth the extra $$$. I don't have a ton of money, so I'm sorta hoping that the KYB's will be a good route to take with my suspension.

Also, if people could comment on my suspension set-up that'd be great:

1. IROC-Z front sway bay, stock rear sway bar. Both with poly bushings.
2. Shocks????? Depends on this thread really and the info I get.
3. Stock IROC-Z springs, should be an improvment over the stock V6 springs, but I'm considering the Intrax springs as well.
4. LCA relocation brackets
5. Stock torque arm is fine, just poly bushings
6. Poly bushings throughout most of the car.
7. Might box stock LCA's (is it reccomended/worth it?)
8. Already have a Jegster Torque arm/mount
9. Already have Jegster Frame ties (any difference between these and SFCs?)

-Thanks, Brandon

 

From what I've heard, KYB isn't the best brand out there. But it is a good bang for the buck. I'll be getting some tomorrow.

 

I just ordered the koni yellows for the rear of my car. I went auto-xing today with the cheap shot pair that is in their now. I'll try to remember to let you know how much of a difference it makes. I'll be installing them next weekend.

 

Let me know how they are on your car. Is everything else on your suspension stock? And if you try out different settings let me know how they feel, particurly the firmest and 2nd firmest when if you try those.

 

koni yellow's will be your best bet.. i wouldnt even consider kyb's

 

Why not the KYB's though? It's not really the rear shock price that's a big deal, it's the front ones. Have you had any personal bad experiance with them or are you just going by what other people said? Do you know what other people didn't like about them?

 

performance wise they are not much better than stockers...

if your going for performance, then koni yellows are what you want. They will be able to control a stiffer spring much better than the kyb's. Friend of mine has them in his formula, said they are no better than the stockers he pulled out...

 

In my opinion its all relative. To me there is no best strut/shock out there because you can't determine whats best based off the strut/shock by itself. Suspension is a combo of parts, the struts/shocks and the springs and swaybars work together. So to me the best strut/shock is the ones that work the best with whatever else you've got in your combo, its all relative. The tough part of course is finding out what struts/shocks work best with what you've got. This is where adjustability is really usefull, allows you to "tune" the strut/shock to match what you've got. The tough thing there is finding out what the ranges of adjustability are, not always an easy thing to find.

I would consider KYB to be the cheaper brand, where Koni would be the better more performance oriented brand. The Koni Red's are for street use (softer) and the yellows for track use (stiffer). All 3 are adjustable. If I were you I would base what I buy on what other parts you're running. If its stockish then you probably dont need the stiffest strut/shocks out there. But if you're going extreme on springs/swaybars then you'll probably need to also go extreme with struts/shocks. Its a tough choice, but one thing is for sure, for people that want to go all out racing, the Yellows seem to be the strut/shock of choice.

 

Exactly what he said. If you plan on being competitive in any autox or track racing, KYBs are a definite no-no. Yellows are the way to go.

Also, DO NOT USE rear lower control arm relocation brackets for autox, unless your car is lowered. YOu want your LCA to be level to the ground, or at a very slight angle downwards (at the diff). Anything more than that and the car will be almost undriveable loose for autox. I know, because I've been there. I had the LCA on the lowest mounting hole on the brackets and that gave me an 8 degre angle...car was useless on the course. I raised the LCA to the middle hole, that gave me 2 degrees, and now it's almost perfect.

If you're drag racing, then get as much rear angle as possible on the LCAs.

 

Allright, well it looks like I won't be going with KYB's then. No big deal, only $160 more or so, I'll just save up a littte longer. On the Koni Yellow's though, I understand they're suited mainly for the track, but are still adjustable. What is it like if you were to set them at one of the more conservative settings, just for street driving? I don't mind a little bit of a rough ride, I'm just curious as to what an everyday setting would be like, say softest or 2nd softest. Also, the Koni Yellow's are externally adjustable correct, I won't have to pull them off the car?

Also, if you guys could look at my sorta budget set-up and tell me what you think of what I could improve I'd appreciate it;

1. IROC-Z front sway bay, stock rear sway bar. Both with poly bushings.
2. Koni Yellows
3. Stock IROC-Z springs. Should be an improvment over the stock V6 springs, but I'm considering the Intrax springs as well.
4. Stock IROC-Z wonderbar (or should I go with an aftermarket one?)
5. Poly bushings throughout most of the car (already have them in some places, including sway bars)
6. Might box stock LCA's (is it reccomended/worth it?)
7. Already have a Jegster Torque arm/mount
8. Already have Jegster Frame ties (any difference between these and SFCs?)

Anyways, let me know if that looks okay. Also, the reason I stayed with the stock rear sway bar, is because I've heard a larger one like the WS6 bar or something could actually produce an understeer situation. Is this true, or should I step up from the stock V6 one (I believe it's 19mm) to a bigger one like the ones on IROC-Z's or WS6 cars? What do some of you guys use?

 

i would box the stockers if, and only if the bushings look good... if not, and your intrested in doing a little exra work (i wouldnt weld them with the rubber in them anyways) find the part number for the 1le rubber bushings for the rear lca's... it's a higher durometer rubber...

Otherwise, the only thing i can say is don't bother going too nuts with the poly stuff - it squeaks and is a little less resistant to bind...

wonderbar shouldnt matter... i'd get one from Top down solutions, although i have the spohn adjstable.. (allows some preload).

Intrax springs? forget them... sucky do... stick witht he hotchkiss or eibachs... both leave the spring rates from the ws6's and z28's alone and just shorten the spring up...

As for the ride with the koni yellows, on the lower settings, they shouldn't ride much harsher than a good set of ordinary shocks... you'll learn to appreciate at the better response out of them anyways.

As for sway bars, it is my understanding you want to keep them a set - IE get a set from an iroc and swap both the front and the back... putting in a big front, and leaving a small back will cause the car to be very off balance because of different amounts of roll in the front and back... It's my opinion that you should put the big ws6/iroc bars in it asap... they will help a ton at the autocross...

 

Allright, I got a set of Z-28 bars locally that I can get cheap, you think I should go with those (are they the same thing as IROC bars? or am I better off buying some IROC or WS6 bars on ebay or something?

 

give them a measure and report back i would say try and find a 34 or 36mm front bar and a 24mm rear bar...

 

If you plan on autocrossing the car, then yes, get the biggest bars you can get, and in matched pairs like someone said.

I have the 36mm/24mm bars and springs from a 1LE car on mine and I really like the balance. Only problem I have with mine is the alignment; I can't get lower than +0.5 camber. . I need different strut tower plates or camber bolts. My car isn't lowered though...actually I think it sits higher than stock with those 1LE springs at almost 27" ground to fender lip. If I lowered the car 1.5", I could maybe get down to -0.5 camber but that still not enough.

 

Allright, I'll measure them sometime tomorrow if I head down there.

What do you guys run for alignment? Right now I'm running -1.0* camber allround and a little bit of toe out on the front and a little toe-in on the rear. The caster is 3.0*

 

I like my KYB combo on the car... Also moog 5664's in the front, cc635 in the rear, poly everwhere, and boxed LCA's and panhard. Works very well, car is tight and solid.

 

Umm, no offence but how are you getting any kind of rear camber or toe adjustments on a solid axle car?

 

with a big hammer?

 

I'm not, that's how they were on the alignement machine. Technically it was something like -.07 for one rear wheel and -.05 for the other, but I just rounded, there weren't any adjustments made. Notice for toe I just said there's a little toe-in, I didn't give an exact #, it's just how they were. Front I'm running about -1.0* camber on both wheels, with a little toe-out.

Come one give me a little credit, I'm not that slow, just worded a little wrong.

 

I replaced my worn out rear shocks with koni yellows. Wow, what a difference! I know that just replacing them with new factory shocks would have made a world of improvement, but the konis feel really solid. I set them to the #2 setting, and they are nice and firm.

 

for auto x and all that stuff would a good choice be koni yellows eibach pro kit and stock iroc front rear sway bars and the zo6 rims with 275 on all 4? { no idea about spacers} but i have yet to install the shocks struts and springs and not sure if the rim of chocie will fit and cant seem to get an answer

 

that's not cool. was thinking about AGX for a while though but from what many have said for my car they are a good shock. much better then the illuminas

 

anyone feel like explaining if the illuminas are any good, i would suspect tokico is one of the better brands other than bilstein and koni anyways. Import suspension gurus swear by them anyways.

or tokico hp's.

I've only found 1 review for tokico hps and a eibach pro kit and he said it was definetly a canyon carving setup and stiff as hell + responsive.

 

its coo ill just get ignored

 

you and me both i guess hehe. Anyways to answer your question i would say yes definetly that's a good setup other than possibly the rim/tire choices. Doubt i'd push the limits that close from all the reviews on z06 rims i've heard they always tend to lead to *it only rubs when i stear sharp than *x* or only if i hit a bump while turning left or such* either way my opinion is rubbing isn't good especially if you plan on pushing the suspension in an auto cross event or such.

 

go 1 better than KYB's and get Tokico Illumina's..

on the hardest setting on KYB AGX.. its like being on #2 on the Tokico's. Cheaper than Koni.. but performance is very good.. you can pick up fronts and rears on Ebay for about 340$...

 

You can pull it on a frame machine or you can heat the axle tubes with a torch and the side that you get hot will shrink a little...

 

Dean, I know we've disagree'd about the Reds before, but when you put it like this, I can agree 100%. They aren't crappy but when you're talking bang for the buck there are other choices out there that are better.

 

Shocks, get the yellows
swaybars, biggest front bar you can get 36mm
rear SB, depends on springs if stock go 24mm if stiffer springs are used a smaller bar will be desirable (this assumes stock PHB location)

I have 175# rear springs and have gone down to a 19mm rear bar.I think it is still a bit stiff in the rear which causes a bit of oversteer.

 

hopefully not to bring this topic to stray but why is it everone insist on getting the largest sway bar your car can fit?

 

kinda wondering the same thing, with the old sotp i think my stock rs bars are about perfect, after stiffening everything up (wonderbar, stb, subframe connecters and a little seem welding) mine feels about as beastly as i would think they could be other than a little body roll from mushy springs and shocks.

 

The person that started this thread specified that he was building for autox and RR. For that type of application you need to be stiff in front. My car is 36/19 with 800/175 and I am thinking that I will be going stiffer all around along with a lower PHB.I do not have SFC so that has a little bearing but in terms of autox they are not that big of a deal. Wheel rate is determined by swaybar size and spring rate. if you use a smaller bar you need stiffer springs or vise versa. For a daily driver / race car it is best to use the biggest possible swaybar to maintain driveability.

 

All that stiff front end is going to do is cause the car to understeer. and sure those larger swaybars might prevent the car from rolling around but what help will they be when braking? also if you are on an uneven surface those swaybars can cause more harm then good. if you hit a bump it will affect both left and right wheels causing less grip both ways. anti roll bars should be used more as a fine tune rather then use that as the end all.

 

Let me start with the understeer, don't have any. My car has a bit of oversteer and I race it regularly so I am very aware of how the car handles. As for braking I did not say use soft springs, I said you can use softer springs. Instead of running 1000# or 1100# front springs you can use between 700 and 900#. On irregular surfaces cars grip better with softer springs, and what race track has a massive bump at mid-turn?????? I agree that they are more of a fine tuning item but I prefffer to play with the rear and leave the front alone. A change to the rear affects the front as well. Look at what the CMC and AS cars are running and you will find big front swaybars.

 

The rear axle must sag as the car gets older or something because I have about .6 neg. camber on mine as well.

The following works well on my car for use on a road course although not so well for autocross:

Koni Yellows, Eibach Prokit. GW Steering Brace, Poly Bushings, SF Connectors, Adj. Panhard, Tubular LCAs with Relocation Brackets, 32/21 Bars and BFG KDW 275/40/17s.

Alignment is neg. 1.5 camber, 0 toe and 3 Caster.

I have the rear shocks on the softest setting and the fronts about at two turns for the track and half a turn for the street.

I left the stock 32/21 bars on there as the package seems to work for what I do. The car is stable on long fast tracks with a lot of sweepers and downhill corners. It's not too bad on short tracks although it doesn't seem to like autocross much but then neither do I ..lol

 

what race track has a mirror smooth finish. is this throttle based oversteer that you are talking about that you have? front sway bars generally are larger though. but I don't see the need of them being huge. the whole idea of how they work to me just doesn't sit right to use them as the major tuning that most people seem to take them for.

I don't care for the whole idea of when you are taking that right hand turn and all the weight is on the left hand side of the car the way it tries to prevent roll is by lifting on the right hand tire/inside tire.


not saying they can't be usefull but I have seen many people here thing you get the largest front and rear swaybar that you can.

 

these were my thoughts also for all it's worth (beleive me not much lol).

 

same here. I'm sorta slow in the ehad