I've only had my Firebird for about a month now, and I've noticed that when I have to make a sharp turn, with the steering wheel turned all the way to one side or the other, my car starts doing very strange things. It feels like the wheels are almost wobbling from side to side, because the car keeps jerking forward as it turns, I had the window down once and I could hear what sounded like a sort of popping noise. Do our cars have cv joints? I'd go look but it's dark and raining outside. Any Ideas?

 

sounds like the alignment is out

 

Might have worn suspension as well. Time to jack it up and shake it down.

 

mine used to hop when the wheel was cranked, check your strut towers, sway bars, end links/ ball joints etc, 3 years after having mine ive finally broken down and gotten the 34 mm sway bar/ wonderbar for the front and 24 mm for the rear, no more hopping im pretty sure thats what your experiencing, i also replaced all my bushings with polyurethane which also helped

good luck

 

I know the alignments good, and the shocks and struts are still good, my mechanic had it hoisted up on his lift a couple of weeks ago and commented on how good the condition is considering the age of the car, I'll probably just take it back to him and get him to check it out this weekend

 

With the wheel at full lock the tire scrub is real bad in these cars and the car just hops forward whilst turning. It's sh!tty suspension engineering from GM.

 

Do you know what exactly I'd have to do to fix the hopping? And roughly how much it would cost?

 

Yes, buy a different car...no joke!

 

That's what I didn't want to hear hehe... hopefully I can just do something like BluFBdy was saying he did, I'll have to see what the mechanic says

 

Sad to say twin turbo spoke the truth, some of the problem is bad balljoints in the steering linkage but it's a factory flaw that will always be present to some degree, at fulll lock the alignment is is out of wack

 

I think the previous owner got the ball joints replaced, but just as long as my wheels don't pop off I guess I can live with it, because the pros of my car sure as hell outweigh the cons

 

its just an inherent flaw with the front suspension design.
theoretically it could be fixed by changing the Ackerman geometry, but essentially what is happening is that the outer tire is turning too much and the inner tire is not turning enough.

dont worry about it, nearly all cars from this era do it as well. some are much worse too.
in my 84 caprice i have to give it a good amount of gas at full lock to get it to budge at all.

 

me and my roomates 3rd gens do it too.

 

I think a strut tower brace may help. I want one by springtime.

Be sure to check not only for worn parts, but also cracks in the strut towers and all mounting points for the suspension.

 

I agree with what others have said: The problem is inherent to the car.

Perhaps the above is good reason for a steering box brace (aka Wonderbar):

The following is from How to Tune and Modify your 1982-1998 Camaro by Jason Scott:

"The problem stems from high forces transmitted from the steering box to the chassis, especially under low-speed cornering, such as when maneuvering around a shopping mall parking lot. Fat performance tires present a great deal of resistance at low speeds, which imparts considerable stress into the steering system, and ultimately attempts to rip the steering box from its mounting surface--especially during "full-lock" turns, where steering torque is greatest. Over time, these forces weaken the chassis surface around the steering box and can result in torn metal.

"Whether the chassis is weakened or torn at the steering box, the result is the same--steering actions are delayed while the chassis flexes, leading to unresponsive and erratic steering. Ironically, though the damage stems from low-speed steering, the resulting problem is far more serious at high speeds than low ones.

"It is possible to repair the damaged area, though the best solution is to avoid the problem in the first place by installing a brace that reinforces the steering box mounting area."

Blind Driver, you won't experience the full benefit of an STB without after market strut mounts, such as the ones Spohn or Hot Parts fabricate.

JamesC

 

it has nothing to do with a wonderbar or stb or any other brace.
its due to the steering axis inclination angle causing the ackerman angle to go out of whack at high steering angles

 

Yes, I understand.

JamesC

 

I've tried to tell people that before, no one believes me, they all seem to think something must be screwed up on their car.

James was talking about the effects, not cause.

 

I've cleared up alot of mine by totally replacing all front end suspension parts, but it still exists, just not so badly. The greatest improvement came with new Idler Arm, adding wonderbar, and replacing ball joints and tie rod ends.

 

exactly. i rebuilt my front end with polyurethane bushings, bumped up the sway bar sizes and put on the wonderbar, theres still a bit of it im sure but it makes a huuuge difference regardless

 

OK this is not a bad thing, its a good side effect, here is why.

The 2nd 3rd-4th [dunno on 5th] gen line is special
GM did something they didn't do on the other cars.

Our cars are set up to run pidgin toed factory for a fantastic reason.

As our cars are made to run flat in a turn. Gotta pick one with stock stuff.
[Do you want max contact when turning or going straight? ]

Hence
"Fat performance tires present a great deal of resistance at low speeds,"
Correct

All other GM cars are setup to run on the edge in a turn.

Its a upgrade mod for the muscle cars of the 60-70 to look factory stock and be able to turn better. Steal the parts off a 2nd gen just for that.

Its not a big known fact [ I only know cause its a secret tip to make big Buicks turn better and pass for stock.] but gives us a special edge over the rest when you got stock parts and you want to turn quick.

 

How much did that cost you?

 

NO OFFNENSE TO GM OR ANYTHING BUT...

stock for stock our cars arent exactly the worlds greatest with turns... i mean come on we drive 2 ton land yachts that came with soft bushings and without the iroc option or a suspension package they werent too great, the guy i bought mine off replaced every bushing with factory rubber and it had ridiculous body roll, after the poly parts and the sway bars/ wonder bar im finally not afraid to take a fast turn, granted the stiffer suspension gives it more of a tendency to want to kick out if i gun it but thats not neccesarily a bad thing

the sway bars/ wonder bar i picked up for $100 off an 87 iroc my friend was parting out, and the bushings cost me about $140 ( i got the "full" kit off jegs for around $100, but it didnt have sway bar bushings for the front so when i upped the sway bars i had to pay $30 for the 34mm/24mm poly bushings and a new set of end links) best thing ive done to the car yet IMO

 

Car and Driver selected the 1984 Chevy Camaro Z28 (pre-IROC) as the best-handling car built in the United States. According to the White Book, although the Corvette had higher road-handling capacity by skid pad test, when all factors were considered, the Z28 took top honors.

JamesC

 

/thread

 

My Firebird has always ridden on rails and its all 220,000+ miles stock, cept for shocks that were replaced in the rear many years ago by me.

The only things I have done are boxed my LCA’s n panhard bar, front and rear STB [cheesy cheap 2 points] and a fully welded interior body pannel seams.

If it wont turn with out putting in fancy replacement parts, the rest must be junk too as someone beat the **** out of that thing and its not the cars fault.

 

the 84 Z28 did, not the base model lol i made that apoint in my previous post, the top models were great but how many people on here have and RS? tons lol thats a cool fact though i never knew that

 

right, and they suck at acceleration too. i mean look, they all have 4 bangers and 2.73:1 rear end gears.

the point is that the top car was simply the same car as the base car but with a few selected modifications.
better springs, better swaybars, stiffer shocks, and bigger wheels and tires are the majority of what separate the RS from the Z28/IROC
sure you get a ground effects package, but as far as handling, its springs, shocks, bars, wheels and tires and thats about it, all of which can be added easily in your driveway

 

well id use "easily" very loosely here, i have my certs in suspension and a few other areas but for people who dont know it could probably turn into a nightmare lol ive ended up installing all iroc parts, polyurethane bushings and lowering springs so i cant even speak for stock cars at this point, i drove it once (home when i bought it) with the stock springs and then swapped em, so ive technically only driven a "base" camaro once lol all in all suspension was the best place to start for me next is the LS swap

 

I have a 78 Lemans with 225/55/16's on it and new coils ordered for an 84 z28 with new ball joints, idler arm and Z quick ratio box and it now does this as bad as my 85 Z28.
Im gonna upgrade the sway bars and add a few braces to the front to see what happens.

Now im wondering if my 85 Z will be any better once i get all the Iroc suspension in from my parts car?

Also does anyone have a pic or link to pics of the wonder bar?
Was it a factory piece on any models?

 

IROC piece only. Aside from OE, there are many after market versions.

JamesC

 

The IROC should have the wonderbar on it. It's a straight bar that attaches to the front sway bar bushing mounts - TDS (a TGO sponsor) has aftermarket ones - looks almost identical to the stockers - look at one there.