It came to me on the ****ter at work today, so as you can imagine it wasnt thought out too well.

Put the stock cam back in, stock LB9 heads on an idle-5500 rpm carb manifold and spray a 100 shot at it. This would be replacing the vortec heads, lt1 cam and Performer RPM intake. Still have full exhaust and suspenion mods out the ying yang. No more fuel worries, no more half *** tuning, and it should scoot pretty well.

Moronic? Probably haha we'll see what happens.

and no spraying it as it sits is no longer an option because the tuning is so screwy that it'd blow real quick (insert sex joke here).

 

Perhaps you should have started a poll???

Doesn't sound like a horrible idea. Although, it's seems you've become frustrated with TBI. True?

If so, just use that carb manifold for what it was intended for *HINT HINT*

What exactly IS the problem?

 

There are a lot of little bugs to track down with the car after the heads / cam, I got the big one with the fuel pump, but quite frankly I just wanna go back to stock so Im not constantly saying "well if I buy this one more piece, that'll be the last piece of the puzzle" like I am now. I wouldnt say a carb is out of the question, but this is a car Im driving ~3 hours back home from school on occasion and I'd rather efi on top of it.

Plus it just got broken into and its now rotting at home not moving (waiting for insurance), it probably wont be out the rest of the summer. It'd give me some breathing room to get it back to stock and save some money up for something sick. I figure with a 100 shot it'd be a high 13 second car, which is good enough for who it's for.

 

Chuck I think you need to switch to another inspiration throne, maybe to one down the hall. I still believe that you just need a bigger TBI and a little more time to play with the tuning. What do you have to lose. You have no more weak links. That puzzle is almost done and seems like there is one piece left, and whats another $200. If that doesn't work, than well..........i geus you have no choice. There has got to be another guy or two on this board thats running a set-up like yours. How do thiers run?

 

Seems like you want to avoid tuning your car. Why? Is it because of TBI? Then ditch it. There's no reason a carb isn't reliable, and as for gas mileage check the link in my sig, I get over 17 MPG on the freeway. That isn't all that great but it is better then my dad's 2002 Suburban or a certain 1999 Tahoe I know of (I can't compare it to cars because I would lose ). If you don't want to tune the TBI, **** it. How many people have been dissapointed with a TBI to carb swap? Not many. This is the same thing I was saying in the other post, tune your combo to be the best it can be, regardless of mods and/or induction system. If the thought of tuning makes you get mad and frustrated, go to something that is much easier to tune (CARB). I am not that great at tuning my carb (getting better and learning), but there is a local guy around here that will play with the carb and timing and get it running GREAT for $10. Just get a carb with electric choke and you'll be happy I think. Then down the line spray it and be even happier. I don't think it would be smart to take a step back performance wise just to avoid tuning your combo. Sorry about your car getting broken into....
Laters
Brady

 

****Opinion****
Don't do it man!!! Besides for the obvious chip tuning that needs to be done with your mods, I think you have two main problems,
1) Fuel pump as you stated. Granted I'm comparing it to my 383, but my traps went from 98.xxmph to 104.xxmph after installing the Walbro 255. Stock pump is just junk.
2) The performer rpm intake/ vortec combo. Vortecs flow really well under .500" lift, and make wonderfull torque. However, if you are running a tbi with the stock bore size of 1 11/16", then you are really limiting yourself in upper rpms. Your intake is designed for pulling higher rpms, so it's really like a double whammy.
My suggestions would be to:
1)replace the intake with a performer rated to 5,500rpm. I think it would match your heads/cam combo a little better.
2)more air flow. Ditch the stock TBI. Go to a Holley 670 or carb.

I am assuming you had the vortecs milled of course. I know its a pain, like you said-you need this to make that work and something else to make that work. But I really don't think you're far off. Get as much power as you can n/a, get it tuned, and then spray it. If you do decide to go back to the stock cam etc., keep in mind that you'll take a lot of Sh!* for simply spraying it.
Best of luck in whatever direction you decide to go.

 

There is no reason he can't tune TBI either. I would think that avoiding tuning his car would be to switch to carb. He just needs to ditch the stock tbi. 104.45mph in the quarter and 25+mpg highway out of my 2bbl Holley TBI on a halfway tuned chip.

 

Get a wide band oxygen sensor setup, and a gtech, and dont look back because it will change your tuning world. Believe me.

Ill bet your AFR is way off
going carb isnt a bad idea either atleast in the meantime if you are like me youll treat this stuff as an experiment and learn from it.

 

No offence but that MPH out of your combo is not too good IMO

 

I am sure Chuck will chime in later but I will speak partly in his behalf. I have spent the summer with Chuck trying to help him de-bug his current set-up. He has the fuel probelm taken care of. He has a 255l walbro pump and new filter. He burns his own chips and frequently burns and re burns. He has gears to compliment the cam and stall. The only thing left is a larger TBI unit and maybe 350 injectors.

 

I pulled 22 mpg highway with the 3.42s and a decent chip before the new fuel pump, but that was only at 12.5 psi because its all it flowed. With the 255 I have 15 lbs of pressure but I didnt have it in long enough to calcuate how I was doing mpg wise and I didnt have any tuning done with the higher pressure either. I do want a wide band - but my circuit skills are somewhere below the average 2nd grader's level lol and Im not dropping $800 to buy one. Oh well maybe I'll just keep the setup and put a 6 speed in to occupy my time and money heh...

 

dude, www.wbo2.com or www.innovatemotorsports.com

both wideband setups for around 350 or so

 

Chuck,

I know where we can get a good 5 speed set up for ya

 

Chuck-
Am sorry to hear of the troubles you're having. I am suprised to hear that combo is giving you so much grief.
I did a 350 w/ vortec heads, 1.5 rockers and comp cam XR258HR 480/488 lift, 206 212 duration and 112LSA. I also put in the 65#/hr. injectors. I guess maybe I got lucky with the info from your ANLU chip. I copied the fuel and spark tables from that directly into my stock chip, did a little tuning and that was all it took.
Car is getting 19 city (not sure of highway) and is running below 14's at the track.

I searched for LT1 cam specs on this site and find a bunch of differing values as far as lift, duration and LSA. What are your cam specs?

S-D
Also- some of my best work is done when "downloading brownies".

And please don't give up on the TBI.

 

Not trying to be rude, but how do you know that is all it took? How do you know that it doesn't have more left in it? Cars can run good without being tuned as well as they can be. What was the 1/4 time?

 

id stick with it and work out the bugs before id put the stock stuff on. If you still have the stock tbi, get rid of it. I cant stress taht enough. Even though my blms bottomed out and it blows black smoke with the holley, my engine ran completly different with the larger tbi. All the dead spots that my engine had at part throttle where gone and these wernt due to fueling either because it ran rich to start with. The stock one is useless. I made huge ammounts of vacuum at WOT too because its like having a q-jet with the secondaries disconnected. Those two little pin sized holes it has for barrels are worthless. Hopefully i can get my car back on the road again after the prom burning eqiupment arrives and i get my 9-bolt back together.

 

"Not trying to be rude, but how do you know that is all it took?"
Because I did the work and I see the results.

"How do you know that it doesn't have more left in it?"
There is always something more left in it. It is just a matter of diminishing returns. After 2000 miles, the plugs look good, fuel economy is excellent and the power is there.

"Cars can run good without being tuned as well as they can be."
OK. I agree with that.

"What was the 1/4 time?"
13.81 @ 100.02mph. Other times posted: https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...readid=194625.

Thanks,
S-D

Chuck- Don't give up on TBI!

 

I don't think that he is giving up on it afterall. We had a little chat last night over at my place and he decided to throw a few more bills at it to get a larger TBI unit. After that, some fine tuning is all he can do. He will have nothing else to buy.

 

Im gonna keep tbi. Its not the tuning aspect that's got me, Im a giant geek and find that really fun (damn computer science majors ). The idea would just be to go back to a stock-ish setup on spray and get a decent time. That's a proven setup, as both Camaroracer1992 and ZRATED have ran solid times with it. I havnt seen anyone yet that's really dialed in a good heads/cam/intake setup yet with a 305 tbi. I know there are a few of us on here that have the setup together, but we're not really blazin down the track yet. At any rate, the only things I can buy for the car n/a power wise are a larger tbi and injectors so I guess I minus well do that and see what happens.

 

Chuck, didn't you get in trouble for posting on thirdgen.org during work? That is cool that you find a little time in your day for rebellion

 

ALL HAIL KING CHUCK!
I hope that everything works out for you. Also, as I found when rebuilding my car, having a friend (SC) around for encouragement is important.
Best of luck with your goals-
S-D

 

Yup, it's nitrous people usually do run faster with it. Why can't a heads/cam/intake TBI run a solid time?

There's a reason you don't seem them pounding the streets...
International web-site don't even have 5 people in the 13s NA.

 

Alright brody, enough tbi hating already!!! My combo works pretty well, and it's not even close to being fully tuned, 383 or not, it is still tbi with aftermarket heads cam and intake. My old 305 ran pretty well too-91.5xmph (KCIR)without touching the engine. after the intake swap, 1.6 rockers, underdrive pullies, and chip, I could pull on my budies z28 that was running 94s. My times were always off, but thats mainly do to my poor suspension and bald 215s.
You may as well throw the stock exhaust manifolds back on it and restrict flow even more if you deside to go back to stock.
Why not mod the engine, then throw the juice on it. It will be that much faster.

 

Its not so much that it makes you faster, its how much an improvement it is that's amazing to me. 305 carbed cars go from 15.50 to 12.9-13.0 on a 125 shot, and the two mid/low 14 second tbis are going low 13s and high 12s. 350 cars are not picking up that much power with 100-125 shots and Im not sure why.

 

the one thing i hate about using nitrous w/o any other mods is the car is only fast for a couple of tens of seconds at a time and then its back to whatever it was before. I cant use nitrous all the time for like, when i go to the grocery store or when im getting on the highway. Even when people use it to win on the streets it still seems like a hollow victory to me if i beat someone while on the bottle.

 

 

Run what ya brung, but it's just an opinion....
Most fast cars I know spraying don't haul *** around town all the time though....

 

well i do... but maybe thats why my cars dont last that long.