Alright all. Remember how I changed my fuel pump, fuel filter, ignition control module, etc. etc..... and it was still a no go?

Finally took the car to the shop. I got a call yesterday. They said that 4 of my 8 fuel injectors were bad. $1350. WHAT?! And my serpentine belt was about to go. This is aside from the fact that I have to change my power brake booster and heater core. I'm screwed, seeing as how I'm flat broke.

So, seeing as how my car has 183,000 miles on it, I figure it might just be time to do an engine swap sooner than I thought... Grr. Guess I'll be parking the bird in the garage for a while and getting a secondary car to drive in the meantime. I'll keep it in the garage and purty up the interior and such; do what I can do to the car since I won't have to worry about driving it for a while. Get it all cleaned up since I'm broke. So, what I want to know is... what are all your suggestions on what to do? I want to race the car for fun at the tracks and such, but I still want it to be streetable. Once I get it fixed up I want it to still be possible as a daily driver. (I'll probably keep the other car around for long distances for gas mileage purposes). I have never had an engine swap done before so I need to know what to look for. I have a 305 in it now, I assume I should drop in a 350, but what should I do to it before dropping it in, etc. Should I just find a 350 and have it rebuilt, should I find a low mileage 350.... etc. etc. I wanna go fast but I also don't want to be without my car forever as I wait to get funds.

 

I agree... WHAT!? $1350.00 for injectors? Tell them you can do without the platinum ones and stick with the regular steel.

Does $150.00 sound a little better? Check with Cruzin' Performance Ten bucks apeice to clean and flow-match your injectors. Anouther $20.00 for a gasket set, and $50.00 for the coolant and tools you may not have, like a good T-40 Torx bit, torque wrench, and supplies like anti-seize.

They must be really proud of their work to charge rates like that.

 

Wow, $1350... almost sounds like they don't want to do the job. I bet you'd rather switch the injectors out yourself than switch an engine! I sent a spare set of V6 injectors to Rich J at Cruizin, the difference between my dirty injectors and the set he cleaned was like night and day. 'Fact I'm thinking of sending him my old set, just to see how dirty they were after 180,000 miles.

 

i f***in hate mechanics, they might as well look at ya when your drowning and walk away..........

 

If you think the mechanics are at fault for this kind of conduct you are sadly mistaken........

 

if you dont want the car to be down long and are tight on funds, just buy an intake and carb it. If you buy decent parts you will even be able to put them on the 350 when you get it. you can have it going for under $500 (new intake and rebuilt carb) or just a couple hundred for junkyard parts. go for the 82-84 z28 and you can get the intake and carb for the 305. and it will run pretty good. you can also use it as a good way to justify to the woman buying the performance parts. "I can use them on this engine for a while then when we can afford the 350, I wont have to buy more parts for it."

 

He could have the car going again for $100/junkyard set of injectors. Or spend $400 for new Accel injectors. The car can be fixed for less than $500, and with less work than converting to carb.

 

Well I heard that changing the injectors on this thing are a biotch, and I've never done this kind of work before... so just how complicated is it? I'm sure my Haynes manual explained it, but it also explained how to change my fuel pump and it still took me forever to do it...

I really appreciate the help and suggestions guys, you all have been a Godsend

 

<== unmarried, high school student. ;-) (Well, high school student for about a week more...)

 

You should buy the GM shop manual for your car; http://www.helminc.com . I wouldn't say the injectors are a "biotch", they don't pop out like a spark plug, but it's not a hard job; easier than the pump.

 

I had to have my injectors done when I first got my Iroc. (Took the mechanic 4 days to figure out it was the injectors.) I bought a set of Accel 24#ers (might be too much for a 305) from Summit for 259$. Swaping them out shouldn't be hard at all. You can bypass the heater core with a hose for now since it's summer, and a belt doesn't cost that much. Besides the brake booster (which I don't know about), you could have your car running again for 350$. Hell, a mechanic did my injectors, along with replacing 3 sensors and a bunch of other little things for 650$ (not including the injectors). I think you should take the plunge and change em yourself.

Congrats on graduating, BTW.

 

i did this just for the hell of it....i took out the fuse that controlled the drivers side injectors and the car still ran...i have the same motor 305 tpi and with 4 injectors disabled it would still run...it may not be the injectors

 

I am not by any means a great mechanic but I have changed the fuel injectors on mine twice already. The second time I swapped injectors, it only took me about two or three hours to completely finish. (this includes running in the house getting more beer and explaining to the woman what I was doing. Very easy to do just make sure you label were all the vaccum lines and remember where the bolts go. I wouldn't pay someone 50 bucks to change injectors.

 

That was kind of a lame thing to say. How many people on this board do you think are mechanics?

 

<------mechanic
I understand what you are saying though, but its like any other profession, there are good and bad mechanics. To tell you the truth I understand why people dont trust mechanics. Anytime someone who knows more than you, and are charging for it, has you at a disadvantage. Some shops, whem customers walk in, they are looked at as, ok lets see how much money we can get from the smuck. However in the shop I work at, its how can I fix this persons car, explain it to them, make money but not gouge them. I am very lucky, I work for one of the best old school mo'chanic's in this town and have learned alot about cars, and how to treat people. My boss doesnt charge enough, and I trying to get him to charge more so that he is fair to himself, because honestly most of the time, he is getting screwed not the customer. 1350 is outragous for an injector swap. hell, we wouldnt charge that much for an engine swap!! You should be able to take your injectors somewhere in town and have them flowed and cleaned, and if they are shot, rebuilts ones are cheap. Call a local diesel shop, they will point you in the right direction. The job isnt that bad, like someone mentioned, make sure you mark where everything goes, and dont drop anything in the engine, that will turn into a worse job quick. I'd probably say the job books for 3-3.5 hours, maybe a little more, and most shops charge 55-65 dollars an hour, so that can be up to 230 bucks if in fact thats how long the job takes. Sorry you had a bad experince with a mechanic. Not all of them are bad, and always, if you dont understand what they did, ask them to explain it. Just my .02

 

$229 at Summit.


~M~

 

GM wanted 1400 to change my injectors and distributor, I got the injectors for $60 and a new msd dist for $230. It is not difficult to change them at all. Buy some injectors from someone on this board that is upgrading for cheap and buy yourself some nice tools with the difference.

 

mechanics are good for those jobs that are totally above your head. Just remember to try to get a good understanding of what the problem is before you take it to a mechanic. Just dont tell the "i have no idea whats wrong, can u fix it?" b/c some of them ( the less honest ones!) will ultimatly take advantage of you.

 

no, doing the injectors is not hard. But if he plans to buy a larger motor to "go fast" I would personally carb it. it is easier to set up and work on. Cheaper too. You also have more range of tuning on the carb so if he wants to put it on the 305 it can be leaned out and he can richen it up for the 350. The injectors have less range. And for the not-so-mechanically-gifted person, (or mainly computer and electronics) a carb will be less hassle to go through all the steps of the injection system. And with less parts/controls, there is a reduced chance for failure. More parts=more possible causes.

 

Man.. if it isn't that hard I wonder why they want to rape me with $1350... I thought that was crazy too but I didn't know what I was doing so I just accepted it.

I'm still nervous about doing it, but I might just give it a shot, because I don't have much of an alternative. I just went and bought a bunch of lighting for the garage the other day (mom and dad are letting me have the garage if I can manage to clean it out :-) ) and I plan on getting a second car, so even if it takes me forever it would be cheaper in the long run and I have something to drive.

Do I need any special tools to do this job?

 

Just a T40 torks bit.

~M~

 

Sweet, thanks.

Any other advice from people that have done this would be appreciated.

Let's see what happens. :-)

 

somethining else i would recomend is make sure you put new o rings on the injectors, and put some grease on them, becareful not to tear them when putting them in. Also, after you get the injector rails in, and the the fuel lines hooked up, do yourself a favor and turn the key on and let the fuel system pressurize and make sure there are no leaks before you spend all the time and trouble putting everything back together, turn the key on, you should hear the fuel pump kick on for a few seconds then it will go off, check for leaks and turn it off, then you should be good to go. anything else just ask jason

 

Hey all, I'm seeing all kinds of Accel injectors on Summit's site, what kind do I need..?

 

The injectors in the 91 are probably the bad ones; Rich told me that they are not worth cleaning. And if you talk to him he can sometimes get the Accel for a lot less than $400. I know, I have some being sent to me right now.

 

19 lb ones.

 

Much obliged

 

Oops; thanks for the correction! Funny, summit's the store I always buy from, too. That's what I get for not flipping thru the catalog/hitting the website!

I changed my injectors in a few hours. Granted, it's a 2.8 V6, so I have two less injectors, but the work is pretty easy. I did it without unhooking the rubber fuel hoses that go to the fuel rail. I can't remember how the hoses run for the TPI V8's at the moment, but here's what I basically did. If you don't want to spring the money for the Helm/GM Service manual I mentioned above, the same info is in the 82-92 Haynes manual (found at most "chain-style" Pep-boys type auto parts stores).

Depressurized the fuel rail
Removed the TB, removed the plenum
removed the rail-to-intake-manifold bolts
disconnected the 85-89 cold start injector tube from the rail top
removed the two 10mm screws that held the metal "engine side" fuel lines to the engine
Pried the rail up
Swung the rail over the hood latch area
(rail was still connected to the fuel system)
Removed the injectors by spinning the clip with a small screwdriver, and pullllling until they came out
lubed the holes in the rail and the intake manifold with a bit of 10w30 motor oil
installed the cleaned injectors (your case, new units) into the rail

"Installation is the reversal of the above"

The car took quite a while to start after doing the injectors, since the rail was empty of fuel. It never occured to me. I cranked the motor repeatedly. Looking back, next time, I'd turn the key from "off" to "run" (not crank) a few times to get the rail primed up, then I'd try cranking the motor.

Good luck; do this outside... gas fumes, ya know. No smoking/welding/campfires allowed!

 

Thanks for all the great info!


Question.


You say I need 19lb injectors.. well, I found a set of 24lb injectors, would these work? I found a set of 8 on eBay which are currently at $26 (5 days left though) and I'm thinking about buying them. According to the auction-holder, "They are rated at 24lbs these would be a great upgrade for a 305 which use 19lbs". You figure it would be okay to purchase these on eBay? Are they really an upgrade or will it just be overkill and not work?

 

By the way, the URL to the auction:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eb...151540&r=0&t=0

 

IMO they would be to big for the 305, but i am not a TPI guy and you dont always know what you are getting off of EBAY. just my .02

 

Well I only really need 4 injectors, and I figure at least 4 of those gotta be good...

 

Without custom chip tuning for your car if you go with 24# per hours, you will be rich all the time.

 

And you can't mix and match injectors of different sizes. Well, you can...but the results could be disasterous.

~M~

 

Good point.

Crap.