branz28

I will be getting close to 1500 smackers to retire the old IROC this summer. And the motor is getting up there in miles (179,9xx).
So i want to rebuild the motor and restore the car, starting with the engine 1st. Any engine rebuild kits to get me up to 360 - 400 RWHP? That's the range of HP i'm shooting for and hopefully its achievable. I looked at stroker kits and well, they seemed to be rather pricey. So i need some help with this. Like i said, this is my 1st time with a SBC rebuild. Anything to look at when tearing it down? Any thing to be careful with? Tips? Tricks? Like i said, i need a little help, cams, etc just aren't some of the things i'm familiar with, so hopefully you guys can help me figure out a nice engine rebuild. I'm just looking for something i can roam around town with and will work with my Fuel Injection.
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89 IROC-Z 350 TPI

-Flowmaster Catback
-Performance Resource Chip
-700R4 (Rebuilt) Too much done to actually list
-K&N Airfilters
-Ported Plenum
-2.77 Gears (not much to brag about but eh, its there)
-MSD 8.5 mm plug wires
-Problems every other day with the car (probably not a mod, but to me it sure makes a difference)

[This message has been edited by branz28 (edited January 22, 2001).]

84FTA

Buy a book or two or three. I can describe what you should look for but you really need to see pictures. Find a good machine shop that is reputable and purchase quality parts and tools. You get what you pay for comes to mind. It'd be good if you could find someone who knew what they were doing but if you can't you may be forced to learn by mistake. You should be good since you have another car to drive but some of us try to slap motors together over the weekend and get into trouble. I always recommend machine work before buying any parts because if you buy .030" oversized things but the block is in bad condition and they need to go .040", it is much unnessicary patronage to the US postal service.

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1984 WS6 Trans Am Hartop
Former L69 Car under restoration
1984 WS6 Trans Am T-tops
4-bolt main 350, headers, Holley 650, T-5, dual elec. fans and 3.23's.
Daily driver and restoration
13.98 @ 101

Vader

Branz,

Most of the power increases available in a typical SBC can be found in the heads and cam. A goal of 400 HP is not outrageous, but getting it to the rear wheels can be a trick.

Since your 350 already has a decent compression ratio by design, all you should need to do to the bottom end is to freshen it up. Clean/grind/undercut/polish the crank as necessary. With that kind of mileage, you'll likely have more taper and ridge than a hone will cure, so you're probably looking at new pistons and boring the cylinders. If you're lucky, you'll end up with a 355 when you're finished.

Since the block will likely require some work, the first thing to do is clean it and have it checked for stress cracks. Check the decks for straightness and correct height. Warped/damaged decks will require some milling to correct. Check the main journals for straightness. You should also at least have the connecting rods checked for stress cracks, especially in the rod cap and bolt area, as well at the wrist pin boss. If you have cast rods, you might want to upgrade.

If the block is servicable, move on with the process. While the block is in for boring you might want to align hone the crank journals. The three center main bearing caps should probably be replaced to support that kind of power (at presumed RPMs) so you'll need to do that before the align boring/honing. Once the crank is ready, and the pistons are installed

Then comes the head work. Depending upon your castings, you may get by with some larger valves, enlarged bowls, and deep porting. If the heads are not worth the trouble, replacements are in order. For what you might spend on reworking the heads and larger valves, you might find new heads for only a few bucks more. Head flow is where it's at, so don't skimp here. You can always bolt on different intake, ignition, rockers, and exhaust parts later (as cash and time are available) but you probably won't pull the heads again soon.

After you've settled on heads, get a cam profile that will support the heads flows and fits the kind of driving you will do. Definitely stay with the hydraulic rollers for street use. A good dual pattern cam will allow plenty of flow and still be friendly to the computer. Finish the cam install with a thrust button and roller-chain timing set.

Before you bolt on the oil pan, choose the oil pump that will provide plenty of flow and pressure, then position and weld the pickup tube in place. A windage tray and maybe even oil scrapers for the crank can help with some more "free" horsepower.

When you get that far, you will have spent considerable time and money. You might want to consider a spare engine and stand, then perform the work as time permits. Since an engine will eventually have to come out, and
an engine will eventually have to go back in, having a ready-built spare can simplify the task.

Start adding up the time, parts, and shop labor costs for your project. By the time you're finished, you might want to compare the total price to a new short block or complete crate engine. Some of these can be a real bargain by comparison.


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Later,
Vader
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"I'm gonna talk about some freaky sheet now..."
Adobe Acrobat Reader 4.0
KaleCo Auto Parts

Guest

Dont forget you have TPI, so pulling 400HP isnt unrealistic but with the stock parts its much more, shall I say, fun. And that 2.77 gear isnt going to do you any favors. Just making sure you are aware that theres more than the engine you get to do with your 1500 bucks.
I think Vader covered about everything else.

branz28

Yea, i planned on the machine work after i called my cousin up after i posted and requested his machine shed to store the IROC during the spring and during the engine rebuild. He recommended a good machine shop and told me he would help me with what i needed when looking over an engine. So basically i'll need machine work, new main caps, pistons, rings, cam, timeing components, and some heads to help me out. I'm not looking for 400 rwhp exactly but anything in the range of 360 to 400 because i was not for sure what my 9 bolt rear would handle. The tranny is built with a 2 grand stall and all the extra goodies to handle 450 horsies. Guess next thing next before i jump head 1st is some reading and some priceing. Some bascially i can reuse my piston's rods (heh, i saw on Popular Hot Rodding TV howto supposedly make them stronger) My heads are stock as far as i know but i will check and compare the two options. I want to goto Super Ram or Mini-Ram but prefferably after i get money for prom burning hardware. Funny thing is, reading vaders post made me realize how simple our engines are, but yet how difficult they can be when looking to assemble a good sturdy engine. I thank you all for posting and helping me, fta, vader, max. Any additional idea's, help, etc is welcomed to help me understand the rebuild process and possible options. I want to however stay away from crate engines but if i have to, then it will be the path i'll take.

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89 IROC-Z 350 TPI

-Flowmaster Catback
-Performance Resource Chip
-700R4 (Rebuilt) Too much done to actually list
-K&N Airfilters
-Ported Plenum
-2.77 Gears (not much to brag about but eh, its there)
-MSD 8.5 mm plug wires
-Problems every other day with the car (probably not a mod, but to me it sure makes a difference)

burnoutrpm

just keep it simple on your first engine or you'll be totally confused. build up a 350 for starters. upgrade the tpi base and put a really good cam in with good compression and good heads like the world products sportsman2 heads or trick flows heads both under 800$! also upgrade the ignition completely. you may not make 360-400 rear wheel hp but it will be a huge inprovement! and the low end and midrange will be to die for! you'll likes alot!! just keep your first engine simple forget strokers just stick to those guidelines and you'll be fine!! also completely balance the engine! it helps more than you think! and use quality parts and fasteners!

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1989 firebird formula

Mods: converted from T.B.I. to a carburator 305 to a 350. Flowmater exhaust,hedman shortie hedders,202 heads,350 horse cam,bored.40 over, Edlebrock torker2 intake.

Future mods performer rpm air gap intake (polished) and 600 edlebrock carb, comp roller cam, and way better headsa 400 defintely in the works!

Pony Killer

I guess the questioin I have is are you ready to be driving around a low 12 second/high 11 sec car, and are you willing to retire it from every day use

If So. Vader hit it. You'll probalby be in the marked for some AFR 190 type heads, a cam in the 220 degree+ duration range, a high stall converter, and pray for the rear.

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It's always SOMETHING
"Sounds like Barry White at idle, Teddy Pendegrass wide open..
if it don't sound like Micheal Bolton your alright"

84FTA

Without slicks a 400 HP TPI engine isn't really in the 12 range, more like mid 13's with skillful driving. Personally, if I were you, I'd buy a cheap crate engine for $1300 - $1500 and just use the bottom end. As suggested you can get some cheap heads (I also support WPS II heads), a cam, and an intake and you'll definetly be within the 400 HP range espeically if you get the caprice engine as a base. I'd go this way because then you have new stock parts (including a new block). 400 HP is pushing the limits of stock parts muchless ones that are 170k into life. The main reason I support this is the learn slowly idea. If you take a whole engine apart you end up with a mess of unfamiliar parts. I know you're into some electronics so I'll put it this way, on your first pass on making a circuit board do you shoot to make a functioning computer? Hell no. You shoot to make a light blink every 30 seconds and even that could be a stetch. You've already had the TPI system disassembled, now one step further is disaseembly and engine/tranny removal then the next step is disassembly, engine/tranny removal, engine overhaul then reinstall. Most of us know what it's like to bite off more than we can chew.

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1984 WS6 Trans Am Hartop
Former L69 Car under restoration
1984 Trans Am T-tops
4-bolt main 350, headers, Holley 650, T-5, dual elec. fans and 3.23's.
Daily driver and restoration
13.98 @ 101

branz28

Welp, i got some prices, and tell me if you think these are good prices.
Pressure/Stress Test: $20
.030 Over: $136
Heads rebuilt stock for both: $50

I forgot to ask how much for the "performance" option on the heads.

I'm thinking -maybe- about 4 bolt splayed mains. Just hopeing i can meet or beat 360 horsies. As far as the drive-train. I will tackle that later as i have yet to find a decent rear...Things like the conv. i wish to get to while the engine is out, seems easier to do it while all is disassembled. I do have a question though, pistons? conn. rods? gaskets? any 'kits' as far as they go? It'd be easier to hit them all at once so i don't have to wait for each to arrive.

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89 IROC-Z 350 TPI

-Flowmaster Catback
-Performance Resource Chip
-700R4 (Rebuilt) Too much done to actually list
-K&N Airfilters
-Ported Plenum
-2.77 Gears (not much to brag about but eh, its there)
-MSD 8.5 mm plug wires
-Problems every other day with the car (probably not a mod, but to me it sure makes a difference)

84FTA

If you end up buying a 383 kit you can get a crank, rods, and pistons that are already balanced and some even come with a balanced flywheel/damper from some places (Powerhouse comes to mind). Otherwise you can buy a summit rebuild kit which comes with all gaskets, pistons, bearings and rings but you supply the crank and the rods.

------------------
1984 WS6 Trans Am Hartop
Former L69 Car under restoration
1984 Trans Am T-tops
4-bolt main 350, headers, Holley 650, T-5, dual elec. fans and 3.23's.
Daily driver and restoration
13.98 @ 101