Hey everyone,

The other day when I got in my car to go to work, I tried to start it as usual. I turned the key, but got no response. No dash lights lit up, and there was no clicking sound from the starter. I turned the key off and depressed the clutch (its a manual) again, but without avail. It was at this point I noticed white smoke drifting up from under the hood. I jumped out and popped the hood and saw the smoke coming from the back passenger side (from the general starter area).

Now, I only have headlights and the dome light. I jacked my car up and tested the big connection at the starter, with all the red wires from the battery, and was getting the appropriate voltage. I unhooked the purple wire and tested it while my brother turned the key, but the test light was not lighting up.

What does the problem sound like? I thought it might be a dead starter, but I should be getting power from the purple wire, right?

Thanks for any help.

 

Most likely one of the fusible links at the starter is burnt. Usually attached to the big terminal on the starter.

 

Will the big terminal still read power if one of the fusible links are burnt?

 

Yes, because it's getting power from the battery cable. The wires coming off that same connection supply power to the fuse block, ignition switch, etc.

 

Alright. What is the best way to test the links individually?

 

Usually I just grab the wire and pull on it if the fusible link is burned and the insulation is intact, it will pull apart where it is broken. Usually the wire feels real stiff when it burns. If you are using a volt/ohm meter turn on lights and crank the starter while checking for a ground signal from the fuse link. No ground = burnt link.. Using a test light connect clip to the battery positive terminal then turn on lights and crank starter, probe end of fuse link. if it lights up it's good. If not, you have an open circuit.

 

where re the fusable links located

 

If they're at the starter they are the big wires attached to the same big terminal the positive battery cable is on. Disconnect them then test.

 

Thanks for the help so far.

I pulled at the wires around the fusible links, but none of them came out. Can I disconnect the wires from the starter solenoid and test them, or do I have to test them somewhere else?

 

Yes disconnect and test them at the solenoid.

 

Also, I just took a screwdriver and connected the terminals on the starter, and the car turned over (quite loudly, scaring the you-know-what out of me).

So that means that the starter itself isn't bad, right? Can the starter work without the solenoid being bad? The white smoke that came from that area when I tried to start it makes me think something from the starter are got fried, leading back to the fusible links..

 

Okay, so I just removed the top wires at the starter where the power comes from the battery. There were two connectors: a big black wire from the battery, and the three wires that go off to the ignition and such. (I left the one coming from the battery on). I attached one end of my test light to the positive wire, and when I poked the connector for the three wires, it lit up. It lit up without the key being turned, making me believe that the wires were being grounded somewhere.

Looking at this diagram: http://www.austinthirdgen.org/mkport...nE_starter.jpg
it looks like only one wire goes to the ignition. Can this mean that the other wires are grounded at their end points, making my test inconclusive? Do I need to separate the three wires that are attached together? If so, how would I best go about doing that?

 

Separate the wires at the ring terminal to test individually.

 

I mean cut the big ring terminal off then test each wire separately.

 

DO NOT DO THIS!!!!!

Test, yes; CUT, NO!

No the reason the one wire lit up your light is NOT because "something is grounded". It's because it had POWER on it from some other connection that was still connected.

That test is meaningless, regardless.

More likely, the problem is, your big fat black batt cable, the negative one, that hooks to the engine block somewhere (maybe a bracket), is bad, at the engine end. Either the bolt is loose, or the terminal on that wire is corroded and not making a good connection, or something like that. The puff of smoke was probably the small black ground wire that goes from the batter terminal to the fender, going up in smoke from the current that was SUPPOSED TO go through the big fat one, going through that little skinny one instead.

Put the car back together PROPERLY, WITHOUT EVER CUTTING ANYTHING ANYWHERE EVER FOR ANY REASON AT ANY TIME WHATSOEVER UNTIL AFTER YOU ALREADY KNOW FOR CERTAIN THAT IT IS BAD BY SOME OTHER MEANS, and take a good close look at the negative batt cable.

 

If the negative wire didn't have a connection, this wouldn't be happening. Also, the smoke came from the starter area, not the battery. The small ground wire attached to the fender is fine.

 

After doing more research, I want to look at the purple wire coming from the ignition. As I said earlier, I was not getting power from the purple connection when the key was turned. This can be an indication of a bad ign switch, relay, or clutch switch, right?

My only concern is that darn smoke that looked like it was coming from the starter...

 

When i hooked up my starter last week after the old duraneverlast went out from previous owner, I hooked it up and i had 4 wires going to the positive post, and the s wire... When i looked somehow the positive battery wire wasn't hooked up and the starter tried starting itself, burn out my fusable link... I went down to lowes but $5 wire , and made my own fusable link soldered and taped together, hooked it back up and worked just fine. The white smoke is because you had a hot wire somewhere and the fusable link saved you from having a fire at your solenoid

 

That's what I'm assuming the problem is, since the smoke was from the starter area. The only way you can isolate the three wires to test is to cut the big ring terminal off. Simple enough to crimp a new one on.

 

Yeah, I think my best bet right now is to try and find out if one of the fusible links are burnt out. If one was, then that would explain the smoke, and also why there was no power coming from the purple wire upon return from the ignition.

Does anyone know if I can check the current at the opposite end of the red wires leaving the starter? If not, I'll just bite the bullet and shave off a small amount of the rubber wire insulator after the fusible links and check the current there. That shouldn't be too hard to cover back up with electrical tape or heat shrink..

 

Not without CUTTING.

However, it's reasonably easy to check the voltage.

Use a sewing needle.

 

What I meant was where can I check the voltage. I want to see if there is a positive current running through the fusible links. I would prefer to do that without CUTTING, but if I don't have a choice, of course I'm going to make some cuts.

 

As said, hard to check "current" without cutting; don't even bother trying; but very easy to check voltage. All you need is a sewing needle. Poke it through the wire insulation and clip your meter lead to it.

 

Cut the terminal off already. That is the only way to isolate the circuits. The terminal is connecting everything together. I said to feel the wire because when a fusible link burns you can usually feel that the wire is hard not flexible because the stranded wire fuses together so it feels like one solid (hard) wire. The insulation might be intact, but the wire inside is broken. Disclaimer: All this advice is based on the assumption that nobody messed with the wiring before you got this car.

 

Don't cut ANY wires at ANY time for ANY reason EVER until you KNOW FOR ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that they need to be cut.

That is one of the main things that transforms otherwise potentially "nice" cars into useless unreliable steaming piles of poop with undiagnoseable weird malfunctions nobody can figure out. DON'T DO IT!!!

There are SO MANY easy, reliable, foolproof, dependable ways to troubleshoot electrical systems, it continually amazes me to see people still CUTTING UP their wiring, thinking it's A Good Idea. It's NOT. Make an effort to understand how car electric systems work; they're the simplest in the whole industrial world, with the possible exception of houses. There's really NOTHING to them. Very easy to wrap your brain around. If I can do it, then ANYBODY can.

Notice the other guy's "disclaimer": the INSTANT you start cutting your wiring, you turn your car into one of "those". NOT WORTH IT!.

 

Now , to properly diagnose whether you've lost a fusable link or not , do this ;

Put everything back together the way it belongs . Take a voltmeter , set to read DC volts in the 0 to 50 volt range . Connect the negative side of the meter to any handy ground on the engine , most any bare metal will do . Take the positive meter lead and touch it to the battery's + terminal to check the meter . Does it read 12 Volts ? Great , now , go to the 3 wires leading away from the 3 fusable links and one after another , stick a pin (sewing needle) into the wire's insulation far enough to contact the metal wire inside and then touch the pin with the meter's + probe . It is important to not stick the pin into the fusable link itself , you gotta get the wire that leads away from the links so that your checking for voltage AFTER where the link is in the circuit . Obviously , the wire without 12V is the one fed by the link that burned open . If your worried about possible future water incursion into the pinhole you put into the 3 wires , cover the pinhole with a dab of liquid electrical tape and this will seal the opening . Now isn't that FAR less intrusive than the wirecutters would be ?? ....

PS !!!

Most times , these links do not burn without prevocation in the form of a short circuit elsewhere in the wiring that the burned link feeds with power . You have drawn enough current to actually MELT a section of wire specifically designed TO melt in case of overload and protect the rest of the wiring from fire . When you find the bad link , BEFORE you replace it , have a look around to see if you can find any butchered wiring from previous hack repairs that may be short circuiting to ground . This can be anywhere under the hood or dashboard and can sometimes be found in the area of spliced in radio wires or amps and subwoofers or such . If you see no signs of butchered wiring , then go ahead and replace the link with the exact proper replacement and see if everything works . If so , great , maybe the link WAS just slightly corroded and weak inside . But if it burns again , you do have a short that will need to be fixed before the repair of the link will be successful .

RESIST the urge to jumper over the link with regular wire because if there IS a short , the rest of your wiring harness leading up to the short WILL catch on fire , and there really is no reason to go getting on a first name basis with the fire department over this . Once this little crisis has passed , and before your NEXT electrical failure , if your gonna be doin your own repairs , seek out info on the hows ans whys of automotive electrical work so the next failure doesn't come with the "learning curve" that this one has . Times of crisis are NO time to be "learning on the go" , at least if your lookin for the quickest proper way to get your wheels rollin again ...

Good Luck with it ...

 

Yes, thank you. I totally agree. I didn't want to cut anything, which is why I was trying to find out where to test the links without doing so. Yelling at me not to cut things wasn't answering my questions. I will try the needle method tonight when I get home.

Thanks again everyone for taking the time to help me out.

 

Doing the needle through the insulation is good. Just don't forget to seal the hole in the insulation with some silicone sealer to help keep water and gunk from wicking up into the wire.

 

I agree with Sofa, sounds like a bad negative ground through the battery cable. The current is trying to pass through the skinny ground strap that bolts to the firewall from the back of the passenger head, DIRECTLY ABOVE the starter. I have firsthand experience of that ground strap smoking. The battery negative should go to the driver side lower accessory mounting hole on the front of the block, if I remember correctly.

 

It doesn't hurt to check and clean the grounds while you're in there like the others say, but the grounds won't give you symptoms like... I unhooked the purple wire and tested it while my brother turned the key, but the test light was not lighting up. I hope your brother was depressing the clutch when cranking. Not being an S just asking.

 

When you fix it don't do this.

 

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Do it this way.
Heat shrink terminals crimped with good tools.

 

Did you figure it out?