desanctis.dino

Hey I have an 89 camaro rs v8 305 tbi so I was wondering if I can get some help the other day I was driving and when I parked by the time I got back to my car it wouldnt start I had my hazards on for like 2 hours. I thought it was the battery but it wouldn't jump them I changed the starter and it still won't work when I manually start it from the starter it tries to click over but when I turn the key it Doesn't do anything not even a clicking noise. Everything like the radio and lights come on but it won't turn over. Does anyone have any ideas please help

John62591

You may have a sticky Starter relay, but here are some General guide lines I just put on another post earlier.

Well there can be an a few things that can prevent your car from starting so you will have to diagnose some things.

You need adequate fuel, air, and spark, while also being delivered at the right time.

Electrically - If it cranks slowly or not at all then check your wiring and make sure your battery terminals are tight and clean and connectors are plugged in all the way. You may have a bad battery, a bad coil, spark plugs, spark plug wires (possibly), fuel pump, bad relays, solenoids, fuses. Security Systems may disable the fuel injectors also if you use the wrong key The Mass Airflow sensor (MAF) could be bad too. Bad Coolant temperature sensor, faulty ignition switch.

If you have an Ohm meter and a fuel pressure tester, that may help diagnosing a little.

Fuel - You may have inadequate fuel pressure, or simply not enough fuel in the tank, check and see if your firebird takes premium, regular, plus also. Your fuel pump strainer may be clogged, or you have a bad hose inside the fuel tank next to the fuel pump (which leaks fuel back into the tank, causing a lack of fuel pressure.) incorrectly installed fuel filter (backwards), Fuel Pump sending unit.

Air - You may have a vacuum leak, with the 6cyl there are plenty of vacuum hoses to look through, but the main ones include the ones near the EGR (Exhaust Gas Recirculation valve) and your PCV (Positive Crankcase Ventilation valve) may be clogged or unclamped/defective. Although besides these you may also have a lack of compression in the cylinders, can be tested using a compression tester and looking at your recommended pressure in each cylinder.

I don't remember when GM started using the VATS security system, but just an idea.

In your case I would check the fuses, then check your wiring and get rid of as much corrosion as you can on the battery if there is any. Make sure everything is connected all the way, then test the starter relay with an ohm meter if possible. Also see if you have power going to the ignition switch. If you need help using a tool, testing parts, specs or looking for parts I have resources for that.

Though the relays can get confusing sometimes. I will check back hopefully sooner than a few days.. You can go to an auto parts store and they can help you test parts for free usually. Good Luck.

desanctis.dino

Ok awesome Thank you I'll try tonight. I bought a pack of resisters so I'm going to try and bypass the VATS first if that doesn't work I'll try something else. The starter is good is brand new so is the state silinoid.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Help us understand the following sequence of events:

1. Car works fine
2. Car is left with electrical thing running, drains battery
3. Car won't start
4. Owner decides to mess with anti-theft key-recognition system based on suggestion from yutz on Internet

Explain which one of these 3 things doesn't fit the rest of the picture.

Instead of messing with the VATS, take the battery out, bring it home, and charge it. Take it back, put it in, see what happens. THEN AND ONLY THEN, if it still doesn't start, start messing with ANYTHING else besides a dead battery.

desanctis.dino

I've tried jumping the battery and I let it charge my cousin put those things on the battery to check the charge and he said the battery was good so it's not the battery. Im going with the VATS because I seen a YouTube video and the guy had the same issue and he bypassed the VATS and it started rite up

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Well if you can convince yourself that somehow the battery running down has changed something about the VATS circuit, .... then go for it.

However, as an electrical/electronic engineer (I design hospital OR electric systems nowadays... been in the test eqpt, audio, broadcast, and telephone industries too at various times) for the last {too many} years, probably since before you were born and maybe since before your father was born, I would still look at TAKING THE BATTERY OUT AND CHARGING IT, or just outright replacing it, before hacking into something COMPLETELY UNRELATED that worked JUST FINE up until the very instant you let the battery go dead. Youtube video or no.

desanctis.dino

Understandable but like I said the battery is good is charged

John62591

I have a suspicion about the battery also or an open circuit.

Battery info I found on different site...

The grounded terminal connects to a grounded source on the vehicle, typically a bolt in the chassis. The positive terminal runs to the starter motor and to various switches, relays and accessories. If the battery is not grounded properly, the vehicle will not run.

If you try cranking the engine and the lights stay bright (even if it doesn't crank), then there is an open in the starting circuit.

Take a look at the battery terminals and cables and make sure they are tight and not corroded, then follow the cables and look for any loose wires/connections all the way to the battery. When you try cranking the motor, turn off all the lights and accessories and see if that helps. I have seen some batteries with good voltage but still bad. Testing amperage and voltage drop from the battery is a little more work, but lets just hope you don't have to do that.

If there was no progress, then check the all the fuses if you have too.

Good Luck.

KYchevyboy

i am having a similar problem with my 89 rs! just all of a sudden the fuel pump will not kick on, the starter will not crank and when you go to crank it the temp guage maxes out!

desanctis.dino

Oooo how do you like them apples I bypassed the VATS and it fired right up

John62591

Hahaha That's awesome and good. I don't know much about the VATS, though it seems a few people are getting a headache from it.

KYchevyboy

what method did you use? the resistor for the key cylinder or did you bypass the vats tdm?

John62591

So here's some info, the from the list down of most likely problems... Lock Cylinder, steering wheel wiring, ignition keys , wiring, and the starter enable Relay.

Well now you know to steal steal your own car... How does that make you feel? Hahaha.

John62591

Here's a great video that explains your issue

John62591

Your wires should be the 'white with a black stripe' and 'purple with a yellow stripe', I just looked it up for your car.

John62591

Also, it doesn't matter which way the resistor is.

58mark

iTrader: (3)

I had a intermittent starter problem for years that sounded just like your problem. I thought I fixed it, but it came back every once in a while until I replaced the starter

KYchevyboy

ok well i have tried the bypass by doing the resistor in the key switch wires! i took my key to a lock smith and they stuck it in a little red box and the number 13 popped up, so i looked up a diagram and my key has design resistance of 7,500, minimum of 7200, and max of 7820! i i bought some resistors and soldered together that made 7502, i hooked it up where my two white wires unplugged from and tried it but nothing changed so i bought a new lock cylinder and had a new number 13 key cut for my cylinder and still nothing. im starting to believe that my vats tdm is the problem. just yesterday i replaced starter, starter enable relay, fuel pump, fuel pump relay, and brand new battery. it still just turns on like normal the security light comes on for a sec then goes off try to crank it and the only thing i notice is the temp guage goes from zero to max. and i still do not hear the new fuel pump kicking on.

KYchevyboy

well i now have the fuel pump working but now the check engine light stays on and still not cranking!

John62591

What is the 8th character in your VIN? Wiring can change colors..

John62591

Here is a good website that's goes into detail with the Vats system. Even though it's on a corvette the same, the same principles still apply. Really good insight on VATS. This may give you an idea on where to look next.

http://www.corvetteforum.com/techtip...=153&TopicID=2

John62591

You may be right about the VATS tdm... If you really get desperate you can splice your wires... they should be the 'white with a black stripe' and 'purple with a yellow stripe' (these wires go up to the ignition cylinder and back out). Put the resistor in between these wires underneath the dash, at least you will know that part isn't the issue :/ I don't think the resistor pellet is your problem since you replaced the cylinder, hopefully it didn't pop out of the tiny socket that you insert it back into.

I don't know if you can check your passkey module, but it is responsible for checking the resistance from the key with its own code. If the codes match the module will supply a ground to the starter enable relay and modulate a 5 volt reference signal (@ 2.5volts) from the ECM or PCM which will then pulse the injectors...

Which means it won't crank if there's a bad resistance... According to this information I suppose the fuel pump should be on at all times... Which is good.

Maybe you can have the Alarm module checked?

John62591

Actually it just occurred to me that maybe there is more resistance from elsewhere, dirt in connectors, corrosion inside the wire insulation or modules. Could be that simple and irritating...

KYchevyboy

well i have took the pass-key module out of the car i wanted to clean the wires in the plug in for it. at this point if it doesnt work when i put it back together then i may just pull it into the field and give up on it! but i have one last question for one last thing i wanna try. would it be possible instead of putting the pass key module back in to just figure out the wiring diagram and hard wire the plug so it would send signal straight to ecm or will that not work?

John62591

I don't believe it would since the module sends binary 0's and 1's as the confirmation... But there's a first for everything and I can get the wiring diagrams for you so we can figure this out. I just have to get my other laptop out and your vehicles info.

KYchevyboy

yea that would be great, im not sure if it will work i havent checked into it too much but if my module is the problem all i need to figure out is how to get the injectors firing the way they should i thought if i could re wire the plug that runs to the vats module it may work and if not i was gonna try using a ecm that wasnt controlled by vats.

John62591

There are chips and kits you can buy to bypass it

This website has a chip you can install into your PCM for $100... http://www.pcmofnc.com/index.php/tun...21-vats-delete

This one has a socket, relay and pack of resisters for $30... http://www.ebay.com/itm/360222657937...S:1123&vxp=mtr

Just seeing what's out there..

Anyways what is the 8th digit of your VIN, yr, make, model of your car?

Also when you cut those two white wires, were those the ones that went from your new ignition cylinder?

John62591

Here's a thread I was on and a gentleman moved his ignition switch to get his Firebird started

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tech...-gta-wont.html

He stated "I dropped the column and loosened up the switch, moved it, and turned the key and it worked fine. I guess it was just out of alignment."

Also, My roommate got his VATS and EGR bypassed in his '91 Firebird by buying a GM adapter ($35) and buying a programmed chip and all you do is remove the stock chip from PCM and put the new chip in with the adapter attached. The chip is about $50.

If your interested just let me know I have the website and his info to get you set up.

KYchevyboy

I got it cranking, injectors are getting fire either the fuel filter is stopped up or the pump is bad.

John62591

That wouldn't be so bad if it was the fuel filter, it's relatively easy and cheap to replace anyways.

KYchevyboy

yea, i think what im gonna do is take the filter off and then turn the key on to see if gas comes out of the line. i hear the pump prime every now and then but it may have gummed up from sitting with very little gas in it

John62591

true

rach119

How did you bypass it?