budget builder

iTrader: (3)

I guess I now know why I was gettinggetti "no start"

This starter is less than 6mo old from autozone

OrangeBird

iTrader: (1)

Three questions come to mind here .

#1 , are you using proper starter bolts that were in fact tight ?

#2 , was the bracket that mounts from the back of the starter to the engine in place ?

And

#3 , was it properly shimmed ?

If yes to all three , maybe it can be blamed on cheap metal , AKA "Chinesium" ?

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

Abubaca

iTrader: (3)

I assume he meant Advance Auto....which now owns the company that owns Carquest. Happened a few years ago. I was worried because Carquest has been far and away the best parts place around here, with guys who actually knew what was going on. ....so far, it's still that way.

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

Do you guys have Parts Authority? They bought two of my wholesale suppliers and apparently they are East Coast. I don't know what quality they carry but they are acquiring decent quality wholesalers for their back end.

Parts stores like Autozone and Carquest are all in a race to the bottom. Bottom dollar and bottom quality.

I still haven't found a good custom starter builder. I have had a couple Powermaster's and the quality has been poor.

GD

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Prolly bolted it onto a block that has The Starter Bolt Hole Problem.

That's one of the things that that particular Problem does.

70s 350 block? 010 casting? got an INCREDIBLE deal on the block? was running when you bought it, but you didn't ACTUALLY hear it run, but the story that came with it didn't make ANY SENSE WHATSOEVER? (yf wanted something that got better gas mileage; cost too much to run in the bracket I was in, wanted to drop back one bracket; numbers didn't match my Vette; something like that) ???

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Parts store employees have never, ever, dropped a part on a concrete or tile floor before either.

Was talking to the girl at the parts store one day, told her the spark plugs we just put in the day before misfired and were cracked when we looked closer, like half the plugs were cracked. She said that was impossible that they were cracked, new in the box... Just then someone came around the corner behind her, and knocked an entire stack of Accel shorty plugs off the shelf on the aisle end cap.

budget builder

iTrader: (3)

Proper bolts,
no rear bracket
No shims, didn't seem like I was having a problem
yes it's a 010
Just strange to me. I was just trying to set the timing it had a small backfire and then the starters was just spinning then it stopped spinning. I climbed under it and this is what I found

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Every one I have ever driven - which is QUITE a few - did that. Including when they were brand new at the stealership.

You can take one look at the tires when turned sharply and see why.

It's inevitable. In fact, the tighter the whole front suspension, the more they tend to do it. Over the years, I just got used to not turning my car any more sharply than I had to, to avoid scrubbing off the edges of my tires. Just a discipline one gets accustomed to, like not going over bumps that are too tall or something.

DynoDave43

iTrader: (11)

Sofa...wake up...you're having a bad dream.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

How did that reply end up HERE???

That's just weird.

That one was intended for the post where the guy's front tires do that skipping/hopping thing in parking lot situations. No idea why the forum software decided it should go here instead. I guess it got misdirected somehow. Oh well.

As to broken starter nosepieces... that's caused by The Starter Bolt Hole Problem, wherein the starter bolt hole pattern is drilled too far from the crank centerline. Obviously if the block is fornicated that way, there is NO HOPE that a starter will EVER align properly. It will always be too far from the flywheel or flex plate. Adding shims will just make it worse. It will always crank slow and make that horrible grinding noise that you can hear from 400 yards away in a busy grocery store parking lot. An easy way to identify it is to put a 1/8" shim in it: if it gets MASSIVELY worse, then the diagnosis is inescapable. 70s blocks in general are afflicted. It seems that the factory had about 3 gang-drilling machines that were used to install the bolt holes in blocks at that step of their creation, and one of them was allowed to drift WAY off, starting in around 70 or 71, and wasn't noticed until about 79 or 80. It affects small blocks, big blocks, and 6-cyls, apparently all of them in that foundry went through that same machine. I have a 74 454 for example, that has it so bad, that I got the car in about 86 or 87 for $1600 (it's a Caprice convertible... robin's egg metallic blue, white top, white interior, 454/400, BEAUTIFUL absolutely maxed-out car, I've rented it out to people to use in movies and commercials... think on that for a minute) because it would only just barely start in the used car lot if they hooked up a booster and another car to it; then I put a 3560 (cast iron nosepiece) starter on it, and it broke just like the pics up there, and fell DOWN TO THE GROUND. I put a 4347 starter on it, which started appearing in replacement catalogs around 73 or 74 for non-existent applications like Checker taxicab with 454 and Powerglide, but was NEVER an OE part, and it's set up with the starter motor shaft about 3/16" closer to the crank, thus giving room to shim it out in a normal fashion. No idea whether that part # is still around, last time I bought one was in the early 90s. Same starter "motor", just a different nosepiece. And of course it'll replace that 3510 (aluminum nosepiece) like in the pic, as well.

So yeah, The Problem isn't the starter, and can't really be fixed at that level, at least not with another stock starter. These days, might be best to move directly to one of the mini-starters that use a gear reduction. I'd recommend one based on a Nippondenso motor rather than a Hitachi motor, for this situation, even though it's not quite as friendly of a retrofit.

DynoDave43

iTrader: (11)

I just ran into some sort of forum glitch, and every thread now shows as "read". So yeah, it's having issues.

As for the starter...I've never seen a catastrophic failure like that. And I hope I never do!

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Me too!!! That's no way to go through life. May you be forever protected from encountering that particular 70s "storied history of GM" quality control malfunction.

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

Could you mill some material off the adapter block on one of those Nippon mini-starters to get it close enough that it could be properly shimmed into working? It seems that with the advent of these relatively universal gear reduction mini-starters, it would be a fairly simple task to machine the adapter block to compensate.

GD

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Could be...

Back in the day, people would do that to a 3510. Mill it at an angle, more off of the inner bolt hole area than off of the outer, to tilt it up toward the crank. (I was less equipped, myself; did it with a belt sander) It can somewhat work but of course is hard to transfer when the "motor" part of the starter gives out, or whatever. Gets old after a decade or 2. And, if the block is REALLY jacked, you have to mill it so far that the bolt won't tighten up, it'll break off instead.

maroe624

Try not to tighten the bolts so much. My guess.

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

I really don't see how that would cause this problem. Too tight and the bolt will break, or yield - possibly breaking later, or the block/bolt will strip out. There is no mention of a bolt failure so what mechanism are you suggesting that would lead to a catastrophic failure such as this? This appears to be a fatigue or impact failure to me - either many small movements over time due to alignment issues, or the engine backfired and "slapped" the starter fracturing the housing. If the engine had rotated backwards with the starter engaged..... well surely nothing good comes of this. I can imagine the bendix might bind up and shatter the housing. Just a guess though.

GD

budget builder

iTrader: (3)

Thx fellas, gave me some things to check I have an old starter so I can do some check s

calebad

Hmm very interesting. I have a 74 350 block that may be affected by the offset starter bolt holes. It grinds when starting and I have changed out two flexplates and one starter. The first flexplate and starter change was done by a shop and the grinding/slow cranking didn't start until after that was done. I assumed that it was just a shitty flexplate so I changed out the flexplate myself. That lessened the grinding sound but didn't fix it completely.

nhgator

I broke a GM og starter having plug wires off and backfiring hard.

budget builder

iTrader: (3)

There was a small backfire. I was trying to get the timing close, if it had fired up the game plan was to put total timing at about 34-36 with dizzy unhooked and carb properly plugged pulling about 3k rpm. Then shut off wait about 10min and see how she fires up.

budget builder

iTrader: (3)

The first time I built this engine I had ups and downs but had a ball. Drive it for 3.5yrs. I found out my rookie mistakes caught up to me. I met a guy who said his dad was an engine builder he agreed to fix the motor (wiped cam). Led to a complete rebuild 2 trips to the machine shop, two cam swaps, motor in car and back out twice, $600+ head gaskets, then I was told that vortec heads are no good and I needed to get more exp heads. All this after 9mo. And $4,000 AND HAVEN'T DRIVEN IT...

I brought my car home, checked the key set on the cam and crank, put a 600 Holley vac sec, reassemble front accessories, took off the homemade high performance 750dp (the one he said I needed to buy) , reset the timing, fired it up and voila the car rumbled beautifully even at 800rpm and didn't shut off when shifting to gear. Something it would not do under 1500rpm with the 750 Chester screws big squirted, power valve mess. Fast forward 4mo (because hurt) and now with less than 8hrs of work by myself I've got it pretty much running

I took back apart to put proper ps bracket on and was about make final adjustments to timing (a little slow cranking) was told it was too advanced,, then this happened.

Learning that the most expensive and most wrong thing u did wasn't the "not breaking in the cam" but was in fact "not believing in yourself" .. priceless because now u know to take your time and learn what u need to know so u can do it top notch yourself

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

You have NO IDEA how much of what I tell people on here, is intended to improve just exactly that... to try to get them out of that fear of the unknown, and reason through whatever situation they're facing, and to TRUST THEMSELVES instead of falling for the "fabled lore" of the Friday night McDonalds parking lot monkey-spank. It's harder for somebody that's been brought up in our force-feeding educational system to do, than it should be; especially for people who've been told all their lives that they're "not good at" intellectual pursuits like reading, writing, math, science, etc. where you HAVE TO think for yourself.

Congratulations!!

Vader

Well, actually, there IS one way to rectify "The Starter Bolt Hole Problem" but it's not especially easy.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tech...ml#post2847929

budget builder

iTrader: (3)

Thx everyone!!! Sofa ( thumbs up) hey even I'd had screwed it up I still would have been able to drive by now.. and I would have learned something..

cold and early dark days here in 27524. I will let you all know what's going on as soon as I can. Thx

NoEmissions84TA

iTrader: (1)

...

Vader

And starters sometimes break even without being loose or misaligned. This is the third one (including the original) to have failed on an LT1:

budget builder

iTrader: (3)

Daaaaaaaang

DynoDave43

iTrader: (11)

You guys are making me want to keep my old brick of a factory starter! (kidding)

sonjaab

DING! DING! WE HAVE THE ANSWER WHY!
(quote) I was just trying to set the timing it had a small backfire and then the starters was just spinning then it stopped spinning. [/QUOTE]

OrangeBird

iTrader: (1)

[/QUOTE]

If it was truly just a simple backfire , and not Sofa's misdrilled block that caused the fractured starter , I'll go out on a limb here and say that if the rear bracket had been in place I'd bet the starter wouldn't have broken in the way that it did . Sure I know what your thinking , It likely would have broken at the next weakest place (stripped the one way cogs in the Bendix perhaps) , but , every broken nose cone I've ever seen on a starter was on a starter that the rear bracket had been absent (Thankfully I haven't yet run into one of Sofa's misdrilled blocks) ...

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Vortec truck engines break starters all the time due to bad dist caps jumping spark to the wrong cyl..

budget builder

iTrader: (3)

Said that the problem was that he never worked on an engine with vortec heads and in his opinion they seem to be inferior so whAt I needed to do was buy his modified camel humps valued probably around about $1500 and he could make the car fly. He would have to pull engine out a 3rd time and then he would finally have the cam degreed and will have to order another $300 in head gaskets (even though these have been changed twice both times with 0 miles on them) and like I said buy his heads.
Fellas I got the car home with the same setup vortec/xe268. And in less than 8hrs of tinkering its purring like a kitten.

I think the comp cam 292 along with the 750dp with all the cheaters/big squirter stuff is what the problem was.. and all the 100+octane

If I can get the starter on with the rear bracket and get the timing a little closer I believe I'll get more than 3.5yrs out of it. Esp since this time the cam is broke in and the everything was line honed and made true. Not a track car just a weekend cruise and play with car. 300+ is just fine for me

Next year I would love to find a mint dash pad have to mount tach somewhere else or a whole new gauge cluster to make it clean/stock. Ooh yeah! and get a decent (not show quality) paint job car has almost no rust or dents. Finally minitub and some black chrome grandsport staggered 9/12 front/back

budget builder

iTrader: (3)

found it!!!!

I had wires 6&8 were crossed. Then my ignition module went out, I changed it and the coil out for one in my 78c10, I grabbed a piston stop and found out that 0 on my harmonic balancer was not tdc.... in fact about 9 degrees afdc on the balancer was true tdc... I lined it up with 8btdc on the timing tab and checked the dizzy. Found out it was a tooth off. Took dizzy out turnee it a bit. Started wiring with that cap tower 18436572. Checked fuel pressure GAUGE got 0 psi. Took lines loose realized fuel pump is running but not pumping ( raggedy after market $18 pump) I ordered an ac delco itll be here in a few days. I hit it with starter fluid and voila.

When I change the pump I'll be good to go. Thx everyone I really appreciate it!!!!

NoEmissions84TA

iTrader: (1)

OrangeBird

iTrader: (1)

Er , not so fast there budget builder , it sounds as if you owe it not only a pump , but a new harmonic balancer as well . You have described the classic balancer failure , the rubber has deteriorated and let the outer weighted part slip in relation to the inner part that holds it to the crankshaft .

budget builder

iTrader: (3)

Brand new balancer!!!!!! But of course that means nothing!!!
Update!!!!!!!

THEY DRAINED MY FRIGGIN TANK!!!!!
all that's wrong with my fuel pump is it didn't have anything to pump. If u only knew the things I've been thru. U would know why I'm pissed. They were trying to get me frustrated so I would sell the car for peanuts... but they didn't know I had thirdgen.org. thank you all and I will piwiup another balancer. The car so far doesn't have anything else wrong with it. They asked me what was the bottom dollar I would take for the car I wondered about the question but I think now I know

Trust yourself, learn, and put in the work dont make a $4800 mistake like I did. Thank u all

budget builder

iTrader: (3)

7:30 this morning,, purrs like a kitten... once warm I can stand outside and just tap the key

Vroom vroom