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RESOLVED: Ignition System Troubleshooting - Cranks w/ No Start

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Old May 19, 2019 | 09:53 AM
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Car: 92 RS / 90 IROC-Z
Engine: 305 / 350
Transmission: Auto
Axle/Gears: Non-Posi / Posi - Both GU2 - 2.73
RESOLVED: Ignition System Troubleshooting - Cranks w/ No Start

I've given it my best shot, time to lean on the members here. Out of no where the car went unresponsive while trying to back in my driveway, eventually it died. My basic efforts are listed below.

Last Night:
- Key on SES / INFL /Security light operation normal = Cranks / No Start
- Checked for spark at Cap/Coil - Test Light seemed weak > Swapped ICM on a whim = Cranks / No Start
- Battery drained from to many attempts

This Morning:
- Swapped in Spare battery off the charger reading 12.8V = Cranks / No Start
- Key On Battery Voltage @ 12.6V > Ignition Voltage 7V-9V (TunerPro)
- TPS Voltage was .53 so it didn't appear to be in Clear Flood Mode (TunerPro)
- Fuel Pressure While Cranking @ 11-12psi = Cranks / No Start
- Watched For Injector Spray while cranking - Appeared present from where I was standing
- Key On CTS / MAT Reading 81.5* In TunerPro - IRT also read 81*
* Noticed Oil Pressure gauge was at 0 and didn't move - Car has Oil Level in Op Range per dipstick
**Tried starting fluid = Cranked Slowly / No Start - On this try I checked the battery I just put in and it was down to about 12.35V. Waiting on my original to come off the charger.

At this point i'm stuck, ANY advice would be sincerely appreciated.

Last edited by 92RS-HeritageEd; May 22, 2019 at 09:35 PM. Reason: Resolved?
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Old May 19, 2019 | 10:41 AM
  #2  
GeneralDisorder's Avatar
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From: Portland, OR
Car: 86 Imponte Ruiner 450GT, 91 Formula
Engine: 350 Vortec, FIRST TPI, 325 RWHP
Transmission: 700R4 3000 stall.
Axle/Gears: 9 Bolt Torsen 3.70
Re: Cranks - No Start

Well you tried starting fluid so unless the timing chain flew off, that leaves spark or spark timing. Check for spark at each plug wire - make sure there's no play in the rotor - could have lost the distributor gear, etc.

GD
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Old May 19, 2019 | 10:47 AM
  #3  
ughmas's Avatar
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From: Mint Hill, NC
Car: '90 Formula '88 GTA
Engine: 305 TPI 350 TPI
Transmission: T5 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3.42 10 Bolt 3.27 9 bolt
Re: Cranks - No Start

After you swapped the ICM did the spark look good? I have had bad luck with ICM's... sounds like you are getting fuel and air... would just need spark to start
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Old May 19, 2019 | 11:10 AM
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From: Ohio
Car: 92 RS / 90 IROC-Z
Engine: 305 / 350
Transmission: Auto
Axle/Gears: Non-Posi / Posi - Both GU2 - 2.73
Re: Cranks - No Start

Original Battery charged to 13.3V, Hooked it up, super tightened connections and it fired up like NEVER before Vac Gauge was 20-21in from the start like one would expect. Backed it up in the drive way and turn it off. I started to write this post then thought Before I got toooooo happy I WAITED 30 minutes or so, went back out, attempted to start. SUCCESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It was like a act of GOD (or whatever higher power you believe in). SOMETHING in my troubleshooting / part swapping acts of desperation appears to have resolved the Cranks - No Start Issue matter and potentially the High MAP Voltage - Low Vac At Idle too!

- Spare ICM (Installed this last night and still received crank w/ No Start - Running Like A CHAMP now)
- Spare Fuel Injector POD w/ OEM Injectors pulled from a Caprice w/ the L03 (Installed this before my last attempt to start mentioned above and still received crank w/ No Start - Now has a nice & strong cone spray pattern!)
- Spare MAP Sensor - (Installed this same spare while troubleshooting the MAP Voltage Issue & no change - NOW, readings are in line w/ my running car!)
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Old May 20, 2019 | 08:11 PM
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From: Ohio
Car: 92 RS / 90 IROC-Z
Engine: 305 / 350
Transmission: Auto
Axle/Gears: Non-Posi / Posi - Both GU2 - 2.73
Re: Cranks - No Start

I had marked this matter resolved. It QUICKLY came back and I suspect the ICM. Ran the car after stat replacement making a datalog, ran great, fans came on at 225*. Since I messed w/ the timing before I brought out the light, it was slightly retarded, bumped it up to 0*, ran even better than before. Tightened dhdb, turned car off, blah blah blah. Go to start car back up and cranks but will not start.

Connected In-Line Spark checker between Cap/Coil > No Light

What's the best LIFETIME warranty ICM I can get? I used Insignia™ - Thermal Compound from best buy, is it any good for this application? What do you all do to keep the ICM pampered and cool. Either they need to sell them in packs of 2 or I need to quit using JY spares.
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Old May 21, 2019 | 08:46 AM
  #6  
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From: Ohio
Car: 92 RS / 90 IROC-Z
Engine: 305 / 350
Transmission: Auto
Axle/Gears: Non-Posi / Posi - Both GU2 - 2.73
Re: Cranks - No Start

Went out this morning, swapped the aftermarket ICM I just swapped in for a GM ICM stamped 369. The test light flickered once while cranking. Im done w/ the JY spares, throwing them all away! No parts store in the Central Ohio area has the wells machine for ICM testing so even a new one off the shelf is a crap shoot.

What's the best LIFETIME warranty ICM I can get?Or what ICM's have you had the best luck with?

Given the tons of posts on here about parts-store ICM's I went w/ the JEGS Ignition Control Module w/ 1yr warranty for $49 which was the alt to the Pertronix Flame-Thrower ICM. I'll pick it up in the morning w/ a new JEGS Remote HEI Coil and see how it goes.

Last edited by 92RS-HeritageEd; May 21, 2019 at 01:43 PM. Reason: Ordered Part
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Old May 21, 2019 | 10:49 AM
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From: Portland, OR
Car: 86 Imponte Ruiner 450GT, 91 Formula
Engine: 350 Vortec, FIRST TPI, 325 RWHP
Transmission: 700R4 3000 stall.
Axle/Gears: 9 Bolt Torsen 3.70
Re: Ignition System Troubleshooting - Cranks w/ No Start

I got everything as a matched set (distributor and coil) from Davis Unified Ignition and am very happy with the quality. As a side benefit, it runs Vortec plug gap (.060").

GD
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Old May 22, 2019 | 08:39 AM
  #8  
92RS-HeritageEd's Avatar
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From: Ohio
Car: 92 RS / 90 IROC-Z
Engine: 305 / 350
Transmission: Auto
Axle/Gears: Non-Posi / Posi - Both GU2 - 2.73
Re: Ignition System Troubleshooting - Cranks w/ No Start

Picked up the ICM w/ Matched Coil > Installed Correctly > Cranks slowly like dead battery / Test Light barely flickered.

Swapped in Battery charged at 12.8V > Cranks slowly like dead battery / Test Light barely flickered.

Does the starter have to spin the motor fast enough, to generate a ref pulse, for this to work?

New Find: While the question remains, I found the dang main block/battery ground wire came out of the connector to the battery. I'll replace that while on lunch and try again...

Last edited by 92RS-HeritageEd; May 22, 2019 at 12:10 PM.
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Old May 22, 2019 | 01:50 PM
  #9  
92RS-HeritageEd's Avatar
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Joined: May 2015
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From: Ohio
Car: 92 RS / 90 IROC-Z
Engine: 305 / 350
Transmission: Auto
Axle/Gears: Non-Posi / Posi - Both GU2 - 2.73
Re: Ignition System Troubleshooting - Cranks w/ No Start

CABLE FAIL



Installed the stock'er I pulled from the JY and added as a spare as the main...

Test light lit/Injectors sprayed while cranking > Car started > Test light bright while running.

If all goes well on my last break i'll re-mark this thread resolved. I needed this win!
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Old May 22, 2019 | 03:58 PM
  #10  
ughmas's Avatar
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Joined: Jan 2008
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From: Mint Hill, NC
Car: '90 Formula '88 GTA
Engine: 305 TPI 350 TPI
Transmission: T5 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3.42 10 Bolt 3.27 9 bolt
Re: Ignition System Troubleshooting - Cranks w/ No Start

Originally Posted by 92RS-HeritageEd
CABLE FAIL



Installed the stock'er I pulled from the JY and added as a spare as the main...

Test light lit/Injectors sprayed while cranking > Car started > Test light bright while running.

If all goes well on my last break i'll re-mark this thread resolved. I needed this win!
Damn talk about a bad ground.... hope that resolves your headaches!
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Old May 22, 2019 | 06:45 PM
  #11  
92RS-HeritageEd's Avatar
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Joined: May 2015
Posts: 674
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From: Ohio
Car: 92 RS / 90 IROC-Z
Engine: 305 / 350
Transmission: Auto
Axle/Gears: Non-Posi / Posi - Both GU2 - 2.73
Re: Ignition System Troubleshooting - Cranks w/ No Start

Car started & restarted while setting the timing to 4*. It also taught me the valuable lesson SAFETY FIRST! I got zapped while holding the ratchet, while setting the timing without removing the air cleaner. All-In-All I lived lol, the car did too. Now I just hope this JEGS ICM/Coil combo lasts 11 months so I can warranty replace them later in their life cycle vs earlier like most over the counter ICM's even though it might not have been the original issue.

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Old May 23, 2019 | 12:29 PM
  #12  
GeneralDisorder's Avatar
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From: Portland, OR
Car: 86 Imponte Ruiner 450GT, 91 Formula
Engine: 350 Vortec, FIRST TPI, 325 RWHP
Transmission: 700R4 3000 stall.
Axle/Gears: 9 Bolt Torsen 3.70
Re: RESOLVED: Ignition System Troubleshooting - Cranks w/ No Start

Darn side terminals. Good reminder to check the basics.

GD
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Old May 23, 2019 | 01:41 PM
  #13  
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From: San Jose, CA, USA
Car: 88 IROC-Z - original owner!
Engine: LB9 with K&Ns, MSD, Foil, Taylor
Transmission: WC T-5
Axle/Gears: BW 9-bolt, 3.45 posi
Re: Cranks - No Start

Originally Posted by 92RS-HeritageEd
Went out this morning, swapped the aftermarket ICM I just swapped in for a GM ICM stamped 369. The test light flickered once while cranking. Im done w/ the JY spares, throwing them all away! No parts store in the Central Ohio area has the wells machine for ICM testing so even a new one off the shelf is a crap shoot.

What's the best LIFETIME warranty ICM I can get?Or what ICM's have you had the best luck with?

Given the tons of posts on here about parts-store ICM's I went w/ the JEGS Ignition Control Module w/ 1yr warranty for $49 which was the alt to the Pertronix Flame-Thrower ICM. I'll pick it up in the morning w/ a new JEGS Remote HEI Coil and see how it goes.
Good luck with those aftermarket ICMs. The only ones that seem to last are the AC Delco. I had one of those Pertronics ICMs literally melt and come apart in pieces. The heat kills them. I recommend you carry a spare in the glove box along with the drivers needed to replace. I had to change that POS Pertronics on the side of the freeway on a 110 degree day. Pissed me off.
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