Took the car out for a few miles on Friday despite the salt on the roads. Wanted to check a few things over and I knew I would be fully cleaning the underside this weekend anyways. Got on the throttle a few times and I am very happy with how much better the acceleration is.



Spent a good amount of time making sure my driveline angles were all good and the pinion angle also. I am happy with it. Used the Tremec app and the iphone angle finder apps because that magnetic angel-finder from home depot just wasn't precise enough for me. I wanted the transmission to point downward a little bit more and since it is not the time to build a custom dropped trans cross-member, I built some shims to put in-between the body and the cross-member out of 1/8" aluminum plate. This gave me the downward angle I was looking for, for now. . Also swapped in a 45 tooth speedometer drive gear so that the speedometer reads correctly now with the 3.91 rear ratio.





those numbers above wont make sense to you unless you use the app

these might make more sense though.. but please note, these photos were taken (and posted) not in order. this is just showing what my figured I was working with were at the time.




Hit every polyurethane and roto-joint with the clear marine grade grease. Used regular grease on all the steering components. I always underestimate how messy that clear grease gets. After everything else was done underneath I gave the underside a wipe down and got everything cleaned. Checked over many nuts and bolts, and as it sits, everything underneath the car is pretty much complete and ready to drive for the year.



















thats it for now, if anything under the car grabs your attention (good or bad), just shout it out to me. hold all comments about the exhaust, that will be next winters project.

 

Nice when a plan comes together. Gearing can make all the difference.

Doesn't matter how you got there (app or magnet) as long as the angles are equal is all that matters. These torque arms have little to nothing in terms of the pinion rising on acceleration. Unlike like a leaf spring car where you compensate by taking a degree or two out of the pinion angle.

No comments on the exhaust other than your car will really wake up with proper length headers and the capacity of the rest to support your engine's output.
On a similar note, how far down the line would you say your cut out is from the ends of your header collector?

 

Yup. I used the magnet, and also two iphones with the Angle finder app, and those same two phones with the Tremec app. I was splitting hairs for a while, and also even though the vehicle is at ride height, I had to account for the fact that I was not in the vehicle during the measurements ... as well as that I put different wheels on the car for drag racing which changes tire height and ride height. SO had to do my best to find a comfortable balance. Also the tremec app was giving me slightly different measurements when compared to the iphone angle app. I know most people use whole numbers, but I was using tenths of a degree, and that might be a little too precise for a multi-use street car. I will see how it goes. These are the measurements that I settled on an where everything sits as of right now.




As for the exhaust, yes I agree. I am really excited to have a properly designed exhaust. Sadly the budget wont be there for it this year. I will need the bigger exhaust for sure once the nitrous is plumbed up.
-the Headers are the dyno dons, and his y pipe measures 3.5 feet from the drivers side header to the end of the Y pipe (collector). the passenger side measures about 1.5 feet. Then from that y-pipe 9collector) it is approx 5 feet of 3" pipe to where the 3" cut out is located. The catalytic converter is hollowed out, so its just 5' of pipe. Then half goes out the cutout and the other half travels through the hooker aerochamber style exhaust with muffler.

 

What does each app give for an angle when you put it straight up and straight horizontal? (lay on a bubble level)

Your handwriting is waaaaaaay better than mine.

 

That's awesome! I have pages of that ***** from months and years of building and rebuilding. Handy reference too years down the road.

 

That first operating angle 3.2?Is the rear end a negative or a positive angle. In the pic it looks like its pointing up in relation to the driveshaft. Even a solid mounted tq arm I have I still calculated in .5 degree or movement on acceleration. Its going to wrap. Depending on how its mounted in the front. Also saw your lower control arms mounted on the lowest point. Whats the degree in relation to the tq arm?Plus when doing driveline angles did you put weight in the drivers seat to simulate a driver in the vehicle? Ride height + pinion angle changes with added weight in the car esp with a passenger if you do take passengers.

 

sorry in advance for this huge block of writing below, its just the nitty gritty stuff I am hoping to get approval or disapproval from before calling the car "ready for the season"

Qwk: I will have to check that! I almost wish I had a magnetic digital angle finder....Using the cell phone is actually a difficult balancing act because the iphones have buttons on the side which get in the way and can effect the measurement accuracy. Also, my iphone 7 has rounded sides so it wants to slide around; but my iphone 4 has more square profiled sides. the buttons sometimes get in the way of establishing a proper measurement because they protrude out of the case, or sometimes they get clicked and change the iphone screen! also holding the phone with one finger in place and trying to read the screen while tapping the "set" button while upside down under the car reaching into the trans tunnel has become quite an acrobatic situation. You are indeed correct though, I should test the phones on a known true level surface. Also, that handwritten diagram is my 2nd version because I didn't want to post something illegible, so I re-wrote my measurements on graph paper so it was easy for people to read.
----edit: I went out and checked the iphones using my bubble level on a known good/level surface. they do read 0 degpretty much dead on.

Skinny: yea this one will be put in the file cabinet for me to reference later. I am going to keep it on my garage bulletin board until I get some miles/passes on the current setup so that I can make any fine changes in the next month or so (when snow is finally vanished). I'll then make a new handwritten diagram and use it for future adjustment baseline.

IROCZ1989: yes the pinion is pointing ever so slightly higher at the yoke than at the pinions teeth. (it angles downward from front to back, exactly the same direction as the engine and transmission are angled downward from front to back). the angles are almost parallel, and I will check the measurements again whenever I can get a buddy to sit in the drivers seat. I am thinking this will drop the engine angle down a little bit more and if its parallel TO the rear angle, then we are set. I had nobody around this weekend to sit in the car while I did measurements. Also, I have to factor in that I use different wheels for drag racing so I have to find the best "middle ground" to leave the angles setup with. While doing research here on tgo, I think I actually read one of your threads from around 2019 where you were discussing pinion angles and driveline angles with sofakingdom. Also, good point, I haven't re-measured my LCA angle since reinstalling the rear axle a few weeks ago. I should. I doubt its changed, but I am curious to know what it is now.
----edit: I went outside and measured the Torque arm and LCS angles. The bottom bar of the otrque arm is at a dead on zero-level reading. I guess that was a coincidence, because I have never adjusted this bar to be level. I think level for the torque arm is very optimal, right? And both the drivers and passenger side LCAs are angled downward exactly 2 degrees. I know that they are never supposed to run uphill and that a small amount of downward angle is better than level. I actually am out of any holes lower than that, so I think thats all I can do. 2 deg downhill (runnign from front to back of car, or body -> axle) seems ok right?


Basically, the reason I am seeking a little bit more driveline angle is because I had a slight (but noticeable) vibration between 70-75 mph cruising on the highway. My previous driveline angles were much closer to zero all across the board. The trans was only angled downward around .5 deg , the driveshaft was almost perfectly flat and the rear axle was almost flat too. Some schools of thought say this is desirable, especially race cars with certain rear suspension setups. My street car did pretty good with this but in an effort to try to eliminate that 70-75mph vibration and get a little more downward transmission angle, I added the homemade crossmember shims. This then meant I had to angle the rear with the yoke up higher than the pinions teeth in order to get a parallel angle situation. Of course that means the driveshaft goes upward as it goes to the rear of the car, which isn't that much of importance, its more important to have the proper working angles in spec of the u joints. I have read that there is minimal axle "wrap" on a torque arm car compared to a leaf spring car so I accounted for that.
---- So in doing what I am doing now, I am pretty much setting this in a place where I know the car will work and then I can actually decrease these angles slightly at a time, to bring it back to closer to zero (IF NEEDED). if the way I have it setup now does work great, its done. But otherwise I know I can bring each adjustment closer to that "flatter" setting I used to have it and I can always go back to the way it was if all else is no good. Thats my thought.

anyone, feel free to let me know if I am doing something wrong, but it makes sense to me and most of the online research I have done shows that I am on the right track.

 

Comment about the driveline angles.
Typically, when viewed from the side, the engine centreline is down at the back relative to the earth. Say, 4° (which arguably is the OEM old school value). The pinion tends to be "up" at the front. That is, the pinion shaft centerline is approaching a parallel plane to the crankshaft.
There's also another arrangement that has the crankshaft orientated the same as before however the pinion is pointing "down". Some find this unusual and unacceptable however if you can get the "down at the back" crankshaft angle and the "down and the front" pinion angle the same, then you're good to go.
With all of this down and up between front and back, it tends to blur the picture somewhat.
Not entirely sure where you're at IROCZ but I believe it's the later situation you're in. Crank down at the back. Pinion down at the front?

 

cool, thanks.
From all of the research I have done recently and years past, and how I had the car setup for many recent years, I have always setup the driveline with the first option you mentioned. Lets call it option A. the yoke of the pinion is higher than the tooth part of the pinion... the axle housing facing up at the front and downward at the back. As you said, the pinion shaft centerline is then on a nearly identical plane to the crankshaft, plus or minus a degree. This is how I have it setup now. Option B doesn't seem to make sense to me (pinion yoke facing down and pinion teeth pointing upward at the rear), because it doesn't allow the crankshaft plane and the pinion plane to be parallel; instead those angles are crossing.

I did a sketch below. I could totally be wrong, and thats why I ask for any knowledgeable advice and opinions to be expressed. The setup I am using is option A with a 2.2deg downward crankshaft plane angle and a 1.6 deg downward pinion centerline angle. they are pretty damn close to parallel, and I can adjust them to be even closer (perfectly parallel) if needed, but I figured I would try it this way to keep SOME movement of the u joint's needle bearings etc




thoughts?

 

There's only one way to do it.

 

Although not demonstrated in the above video, it should be noted a tail down crankshaft and a pinion nose down arrangement is acceptable. Unusual you might think but OK so long as the angles are equal.



The top representation is how the LS converted 67 Chevelle is set up but with the orientation flipped upside down.
Thousands of trouble free miles and 1.5x 60' times to boot.
That said it was the difficulty in getting clearance for the 4L65E in the tiny transmission tunnel without excessive modification that lead to the offbeat (in my experience) arrangement. As a result there was insufficient room for the pinion to be orientated "up" at the front.

 

awesome good to know. I had watched that youtube video probably 10 times over the past 4 days. Thanks fellas. Luckily I don't have too tight of an area in the trans tunnel so that is a good thing. Good to know that I could always nose the pinion sliiightly down if needed. Thanks for the raw tech stuff and answers guys, its exactly what I was looking for. It will be one of those things that now that I have learned it, it will stick in my brain forever.

 

Exactly, both ends of the driveshaft have to be parallel for smooth movement. That's what you're doing when you set pinion angle.

And then the u-joint operating angles also have to be within allowable limits or the u-joints will wear out too fast. That's accomplished by aiming the transmission at the rear axle pinion gear more or less. I don't know the guidelines for maximum operating angles for u-joints but there might be some tech specs on the Spicer website. If for some reason the operating angle was too high then you'd have to switch over to a different kind of joint, like a CV joint, that can operate at larger angles, but there shouldn't be any need for that with our cars.

 

sounds good to me, and makes sense to me too.

while we are kinda on the topic. figured I would ask what you experts think of the angle/relationship of my Torque arm and the lower control arms.

-The bottom bar of the torque arm runs perfectly 0 degrees dead level from front to back. (not sure the upper bar of the mount matters as much as the lower? It is a S&W racecars tubular adjustable torque arm that is mounted to a cross-member in between the subframe connectors. it is not mounted to the trans tailshaft.
link: https://swracecars.com/product/82-02...type-housings/
-Both Lower control arms are exactly 2 degrees. (I MIS-wrote 3 degrees doing my sketch.) it is a 2 degrees downward angle when measured from front to back. These lower control arms are the UMI adjustable ones and they are on the lowest hole available on the Moser 12 bolt LCA bracket. I cant lower them anymore, but I can raise the.. not that I want to do that!

I know this setup as-is is acceptable, but is it optimal for best performance related to launching of a torque arm style car.

I drew a sketch to illustrate exactly what I am talking about:



thoughts?

 

Its all gonna come down to how hard you are hitting it and how much antisquat and separation is in the car.
The torque arm angle i dont believe matters. Length and attachment point does make a difference. Its a leverage thing. Cars gonna want to rotate around that point. Longer arm tames the hit to the tire some, but wants to lift the front of the car more easily i think. Shorter arm hits tire harder but has less leverage to lift the car up. Thats how i always thought of it. The shorter torque arms move instant center towards rear. So does lowering the control arm angle. Shorter arms and lower control arm angles make for hard hits to tire but bad for handling purposes. Driveline angles on transitions and hard braking are compromised.

but for the most part shocks make a huge difference. They will control the weight transfer, the front and rear separation and force to the tire after the car leaves. Alot of guys do go very long relocation brackets and move the bars all the way to the ground. It really helps separate the rear and load the tire. But a bad track and or a not so good tire it will blow them off and spin. So you gotta tune it.

What you have is probably fine for a base line with the hp you have. Alot of this stuff reallly matters with higher hp stuff. The fbody guys i play with have all been 1.1x-1.2x 60’s on 275 radials and torque arm stuff. Some short some long. We mostly have our lcas mounted on typical bottom hole brackets and 90% of tune changes for track conditions is in the shocks. Its a different game at the 1200-1800 hp level as its more sensitive. But most street stuff under 700 ish hp you can go very far on relatively basic stuff.

 

great info Orr. that is promising to me because I'll only ever be making around 550 crank horsepower with this car and then drilling it with (at most) 200 hp of a nitrous shot. So this is good to know that the LCA and torque arm will be sufficient for me and I can pretty much retain what I have and just adjust/tweak accordingly. One day I know I will need to upgrade my shocks, but that won't be this year. Thanks for the tech info, I really enjoy learning this stuff and putting it to use.

 

That about sums it up.

 

had the car out a few times over the past few weeks, but today I did a bit of a longer drive and put 30 miles on it to check some things in the tune and datalog. Also, finally got the car up to "higher speeds" and there is no noticeable driveline vibration or noise with speeds in excess of 100 mph, so I think the gear project is a success. The car does pull well in all gears now when compared to how it was with the 3.55 gears.

Planning on doing the electric vacuum pump setup for the brake booster. Then I can run my fixed orifice PVC valve to the big vacuum opening on the sniper and cleanup the hoses back there. I keep in touch with a few other car buddies and some racers/street guys who do recommend an electric vacuum pump. There are a few complete kits I've seen, and a few options where I could buy the pump, buy the relay, and buy the pressure switch.

One of the better pump options that is more affordable is the GM pump that came on new gen Impalas and malibus. GM part # UP28. I have found them as low as $60 online, but here is a link to an AC Delco version of the pump.
I would wire up a relay so the pump would turn on when the engine is on (not key on), and I would also want the setup that has an in-line sensor which will turn the pump(relay) on/off when the vacuum is within the proper range. Generally this vacuum range is 18-22", . I have read mixed reviews about various sensors, and some sensors are not adjustable, while some are, but later become faulty? Here is what I am talking about: or this one (yes it says psi, but those psi numbers are in range for inches of mercury vacuum) https://www.radwell.com/Shop?source=GoogleShopping&IgnoreRedirect=true&ItemSingleId=39137025
here are a few pumps, and also a few kits. Everything has most good reviews and some bad reviews. The top of my budget for this project is $250 done and done. The Leeds $400 pump setup is just too far out of my budget despite how people seem to love it.

- https://www.speedwaymotors.com/The-R...ump,50355.html

- https://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS+Performa...63016/10002/-1

- https://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS+Performa...2/-1#reviewTab

- https://www.ebay.com/itm/39302794007...xoCnSwQAvD_BwE

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- https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-760152


aside from that, with Island Dragway opening up in a few weeks, I will start looking to get the tune stuff worked out. The car certainly feels a few tenths quicker and that is with these street tires spinning on cold asphalt roads.

 

Got the vacuum canister installed today. Mounted it under the drivers side inner fender. Used 3/8" hose from the snipers 3/8" vacuum port routed to the 1-way valve at the tank. then 3/8" hose from the tank to the brake booster which also has a 1-way valve. There is a n unused port on the vacuum canister that I put a pipe-plug in to seal it off, but I am considering maybe buying a small vacuum gauge to put in there and then maybe setup my Go-Pro camera nearby so I can see some numbers during street, strip, and autoX driving. maybe. Thoughts?




Took the car out for a good 45 minute drive. Certainly much more consistent brakes. I took a bunch of highway exit ramps where I purposely went heavy and long pumps on the brake pedal and I was able to get a lot more long brake pedal pushes compared to how it used to be. Awesome!

 

Ok, here it goes, been busy every day since Saturday, but finally got the bulk of my post-race day checklist taken care of.



I did go over to Island Dragway for Opening Day which was a daytime Test and Tune event. The weather was chilly, but not too cold. I overheard that Atco did not open today because it was too cold, but I am damn glad that island was open because I had packed and prepped the day before along with buying a ticket and the Covid waiver form the night before also.




Decent turnout of cars. DA was great all day, but there was noticeable wind throughout the day. Gates opened at 10, and racing was 11-4pm. There were at least 4 big oil downs so the track was dead for a bit occasionally. One oil down happened literally the pass before my last pass in my lane, but that one was in the shutdown area, still a long time to cleanup.







The car did good, but not great. I was (and still am) expecting more from the 3.91 gear swap, but I have to figure out what I am doing incorrectly which is not optimizing the gear swap. I basically ran the same type of timeslips that I was running in September and October of last year. 60foot, 8th mile, 1/4 mile and mph was all about the same. Expected a quicker 60 foot for sure, and more mph but did not see it. I did get my best ever 60 foot, but it was only 0.01 second better than 2020. Also a very slight improvement in the ¼ mile with a 11.805 at 116.13 mph compared to my previous best of 11.82 at 115.96. So I am indeed confused as to what needs to be optimized. I know I somehow have to hit the launch harder (without a Transbrake) and I am nailing my shift points…so feel free to chime in as to why/how the gear swap isn’t showing track results yet. On the street, the car pulls noticeably harder in all gears. The gear swap is great on the street, but I did not feel it at the track, and the timeslips verified my seat-of-the-pants opinion also. The converter is flashing higher now with these gears and I am coming through the finish line right at peak HP instead of below it like I had previously been. See my engine dyno sheet on page 1 of this whole thread. Peak tq is at 4,800 and peak hp is at 6,000 rpms.



I made no changes to tire pressure or shocks or suspension all day

- Tire pressure front 37psi on the skinnies 19psi rear on the MT drag radials

- Front struts were left on 1/5 so that’s loose and rear shocks were at a 2/5 slightly loose







Pass 1: 4.5 second mid rpm burnout. Launched at 1,211 rpms via the 2-step. The converter flashed at 3,171 rpm. Shifted 1st-to-2nd at at 6,557 and hit the limiter for a split second., and it dropped to 4,898 rpm in 2nd gear. Shifted 2nd-to-3rd at 6,503 and it dropped to 4,871. Crossed the finish line around 6,198 rpm. 34.8 deg timing at WOT with a 12.7 target AFR.



VIDEO:

















Pass 2: Used the exact same tune file. 6 second burnout at mid rpms. Launched at 1,752 rpm via using the footbrake. Converter flashed at 3,127 rpm. Shifted 1st-to-2nd at 6,504 and it dropped to 4,762. Shifted 2nd-to-3rd at 6,501 and it dropped to 4,907 rpm. Crossed the finish line at 6,223 rpm. Timing was 34.8 and a target afr of 12.7



VIDEO:


















Pass 3: Some slight changes in the tune, I raised the rev limiter and added 0.3 deg of timing. I also applied the learn data to the VE table and it took out a good amount of fuel on the wot part of the table. I was hesitant to do this. Did a 7 second burnout at mid-high rpms. Wanted to try launching off the 2-step at a higher rpm to see what the brakes could hold. Launched at 1,821 with my foot full on the throttle while on the 2 step. Car began to roll through the brakes so I just let it leave. The converter flashed at 3,072rpm, but about 1.5 seconds into the run the engine went soft and I got out of the throttle. Aborted the run but nothing seemed awry on my gauges so I coasted the rest of the pass and looked over the data. Saw a huge lean spike in the datalog and thankfully my 100% open CL comp limits saved my motor from going way lean on me. CL comp went up to almost 90% with adding fuel to correct the lean condition and I am very thankful for that. Still unsure what caused this.. I do need to dig deeper into the datalog, but I wanted to post stuff here first to see if anyone had any ideas. ??





VIDEO:


























Pass 4: used a different version of the tune from the beginning of the day. 5.5 second mid-rpm burnout. Launched at a 920 idle from the footbrake. Converter flashed at 2,995 rpms. Shifted 1st-to-2nd at 6,573 rpms and it dropped to 4,790. Shifted 2nd-to-3rd at 6,513 rpms and is landed at 4,871 rpms. Crossed the line at 6,172 rpms and timing was at 35.1 deg and a 12.7 target afr.



VIDEO:




















Pass 5: Only changed the timing back down to target 34.8 at wot and raised the target afr from 12.7 to 12.8 at wot. Did a 7 second burnout at 3,500 rpm. Launched the car at 2,142 rpms on the footbrake. I did not expect it to hold at this high rpm, but it seemed to! Converter flashed at 3,075 rpm. Shifted 1st-to-2nd at 66,58 and it dropped to 4,916 rpm in 2nd gear. Shifted 2nd-to-3rd at 6,551 and it dropped to 4,927 rpms. Crossed the line at 6,311 rpms.



VIDEO:












.















Loaded up the car with all my tools, gear, and hit the road home. Drove home with no problems. It was a good day. A good shakedown day after 5 months of no dragstrip passes. Nothing went wrong, just I did not get any timeslips with a 1.5x sixty and an 11.5x e.t., so I have some work to do to hit my goal before venturing into the nitrous realm. I did notice on a few passes that my oil pressure is above what the dash gauge reads. gauge reads to 80 psi and sometimes at WOT the oil pressure is above it, probably like 90. it settles right back down afterwards. this only happened at the end of last year, and everything has been fine. remember my posts about this and my oil analysis and pressure testing with an extra pressure gauge? its still doin it. ??



I am wondering if I need to tighten up the rear suspension a tad. On the return road I heard some suspension parts scuffing, and unless it’s the torque arm hitting the tunnel from my adjustments this winter, I might have the suspension too soft? Maybe the car is squatting too much on the launch? Its hard to tell from just one of Jan’s photos, what I really need is a video. The photo could be taken halfway through the launch’s squat, or at max squat, who knows.









Feel free to comment, suggest stuff, or whatever. Videos, datalogs, photos, are all provided to help out. Thanks!

 

That Corvette almost lost control.
And that F150 got the job done!

 

yea, I barely noticed the corvette getting loose. That truck had a blower and a bunch of work done to it. i talked to the guy afterwards and he was super happy because he had finally broke into the 11's and that was his fastest pass ever.


anyone have any thoughts to help me get dialed in?

 

Well, maybe.
I'll throw out a couple of thoughts on your progress. Maybe you can fill in the blanks or add some details.
I'll also take the lazy way around and ask what I'm sure has been posted.
How much has the 60' improved (if at all) taking into account all the subtleties? Track prep. Temperature. DA of the day. Etc.
I've checked out your data logs but I can't say I've seen anything that would measure wheel spin. Drive shaft RPM vs MPH? Or even a simple video focused on the rear tire with a reference stripe painted on the sidewall.
I'm thinking you've got enough gear and certainly enough HP and TQ to lift those front tires for a full and proper wheelie. As we've discussed that takes weight transfer and traction. Miss either of those two and you won't get to where you want to. Both figuratively and literally.
IIRC, you're not working with a "proper" drag racing suspension. Or more specifically shocks and struts. The recipe says 90/10 for extension and rebound for the front and a 50/50 split for the rear. That's pretty basic obviously but if your AutoX desires are keeping you from those valving targets, that may be all you've got.
Naturally the converter plays a big part in where the TQ hits. But again, this is what you're working with. Did you say that the foot brake stall was improved?
I'd like to know how much wheel spin there is. If any.

 

Hey skinny, thanks for checking in and being curious.
-Track prep was pretty good. It was opening day at the racetrack, so I couldnt tell if prep was up to par or not. it was my first time makign a pass in 5 months. The temp was cold and they only had a few cars faster than 10 second cars making passes. The DA was great, negative all day according to my TRC app.
-My 60 foot was pretty much the exact same as it was last fall. mid 1.6x
-The holley sniper is the etnry level efi system/datalogger. it doesn't have any extra inputs that would allow me to install a sensor and measure driveshaft speed vs wheel speed. I would have to get a different system.
- Judging by seat of the pants feel, I don't think I am spinning the tire though. I know for sure its not blowing the tires away, but if it is spinning, its a small amount that I can't pick up on. I could do a Gopro camera pointed at the rear tire to try to see this though.
- Yea, I would love to have the ability to interchange shocks and struts, but for sure the autocross and street necessities of this car are staying as is. If there was a rear shock i could use, I would be able to swap a rear shock and spring out in 10 minutes for a drag day, but there is no quick-install for a front strut/spring so those fronts will remain as is. The current koni yellow shocks and struts are only adjustable for rebound apparently (according to some people). According to Koni, the compression level is fixed and rebound is adjustable? Seems odd, because I can feel a big difference on compression AND rebound when I change to the highest setting vs lowest adjustment and try to bounce the car. I am not saying that Koni is wrong, but I can make compression and rebound adjustments with just the turn of the ****. Maybe I will try more compression stiffness next time?
-I am wondering if the car is squatting too much while trying to transfer the weight? When it launches it feels like it sits back and goes forward, where what we are all looking for is that HIT where it just hooks and launches.
- from using the vacuum canister and doing free revv of the engine while approaching the staging beams, I seem to be able to bring the footbrake rpms up to just about 2,000 and launch from there. Before it was more like 1,700 rpms where the car was rolling through the brakes at the line. I think it was you and Orr who mentioned that I could get soem more vacuum for my booster (and vac canister) if I free- revved the engine a bit, just before staging. I did this and it seemed to work, earning me a little more rpm I could footbrake to at the launch. Unless it is my imagination?

 

Regarding the throttle blip and a little extra vacuum stored away in the brake booster, that approach has worked for me. Thing is, what I found is that despite the front brakes locked solid, giving it more RPM against the converter only resulted in the car skidding through the beams. So much for that approach. A transkbrake would be night and day. But it isn't likely to happen any time soon.

Now, concerning your shocks and struts, what do you think is the closest you can get that "recipe" I mentioned earlier? 90/10 front. 50/50 rear. If I were in your shoes with your results and looking for that last bit available in my tunable package, I'd go for that. If you've established that's all your suspension has to offer, if nothing else, you know where you're at.
The above might not be of much help but I'll keep the bench racing going . Maybe someone else has more to offer. But in all actuality, where else do you look for better 60's and ET? I think you have the gearing figured out.
A rear tire video would pay dividends.

 

yea, good point. I am going to try the throttle blip to build vacuum again next time out, and also I figured out some stuff I had not thought of when setting up the tune for the 2-step. I had not ever gained any data from using a 2-step while in gear. I had previously tested the 2-step in neutral and in park, which I should have known, is way different than a 2-step in gear followed by a launch (under load). That is why pass 3 went bad. I am going to try to do some test launches on the street in the next few days to get some learn data in the tune, and then go from there. Regardless, my situation is like yours, I think that I am riding that fine line between pushing through the brakes and holding the car at 1600 rpm idle. The next thing would be exactly what you describe, and just sliding my locked up front wheels across the starting line. So I have a feeling I am basically at my current limits.

Shocks and struts, I think I can bring the front struts down a little softer. They have worked at setting 1 out of 5 but I might try to go down to setting 0 out of 5, which is full soft on the rebound. I agree also about maybe cranking up the rear shocks rebound a touch too.. I am willing to try. So I will take them from a 2 out of 5 to a 3 out of 5.

I am going to shift the car another 100 rpm higher next time out. My target shift for this first session of the year was 6,500 rpm on each shift; as I wanted to see relaible consecutive data about what the rear 3.91 gear ratio change would do. I am happy to now be corossing the finish line 400-500 rpm higher than before, and this is at 6,200 ish rpm which is right in the meat of my horsepower band. So thats good. However, my 8th mile mph was way lower. ...
..On my best passes at the end of last year I was at 94, 95,and even 96 mph in the 8th mile... still around 114-115 mph in the quarter mile though), and that was shifting at 6,600 rpm. yet, now with these gears (and my 6,500 rpm shifts) I was only at 90, 91, and 92 mph in the 8th mile, but I did get 115-116 mph in the quarter.

I do worry about over revving the engine. That scares me, but I am going to give it higher rpms in small bites. I know what my optimal WOT timing and WOT afr is, so basically after the launch is done, all that is left is to shift at the best time possible. Willing to re-try 6,600 rpm next time out and maybe with these 3.91 gears I will see better timeslips.

If it does not rain and track is open this Friday night, I plan on going. If I can get this car to a 1.55 sixty-foot and a 11.55 et at 118 mph, I would be elated. At that point I'll start the roll bar project. I am still curious as heck about the high oil pressure readings I see while making a pass.


-as for a rear tire video, I can easily do that with my GoPro camera. What would you guys suggest would be the best viewpoint? On the outside of the car facing the outside of the tire? Drivers side or passenger side? Or somehow mounted somewhere under the car by the axle and facing the spring? That might be hard for an unlit underside of the car and during the night-time test sessions. Feel free to let me know, and I will point the GoPro where ya suggest.

 

I personally have never taken my car down the track. But, you said that with the new gears that your eighth mile speeds were now lower. I predict that if you shift 100 rpm higher, that you will be even slower in the eighth. It's great that you are now crossing the finish line at your HP peak.

Do you happen to have Desktop Dyno 2003? In it is a drag race shift point calculator. You enter your transmission gear ratios and import your engine file and it will tell you what rpms to shift at, and it will show the rpm drops. The 700R4 has a big drop from 1st to 2nd, so don't be surprised that it comes up with 3 different shift points for each gear.

 

cool. I do not have the desktop dyno program, I just looked online to try to download it, but did not find a good usable link for the program, just discussions about the program on forums. Any suggestions on how I can acquire it ? Edit, just looked, I think its only a paid program I would have to buy.

 

I have it, and I would give you everything with it, but email restrictions now make it impossible to send - even if I zip it and change the estensions.
I did find this though: http://www.proracingsim.com/support.htm

 

cool, thanks! I was actually on that exact website after a google search for the Desktop Dyno. I looked at that page and got a bti discouraged when I saw some of the dates associated with each link. If all that stuff is still available, my mistake then! I might give it a shot. Got a busy next few days so I might have to wait a week or so.

I plan on going to Test and Tune this Friday night at Island dragway. Made a few changes and have a few things to adjust while at the track too. I plan on fiddling with the rear shocks more and also trying some changes to my gear shifts.

I also plan on trying to get down to the swap meet/car show at Englishtown the very next day (Saturday), so I will have to come home from the track Friday late at night and swap wheels over, toss in the front passenger seat and sound system in teh trunk, then wash the car and head down to E-town early Saturday. I have not been to the track at al since it was closed as a dragstrip, and that's been what about 6 years now?

So, potentially a busy car weekend and I hope it all goes well.

 

PM me your email address and I will try to send you the DD files. I'm doubtful that it will go, though.

 

sounds good. sending you a Pm now

Looks like so far Island Dragway is open for Test and Tune tomorrow night. Also Englishtown swap meet Saturday and I pre-registered for the Car show portion. Sunday will also be busy for me with everything else life has going on.

I hope to get you guys all the updates Monday or Tuesday of next week.

 

Island dragway got rained out tonight, understandable. I was half packed and checked the phone message to find out it was canceled.

heading to the car show portion of the Swap meet at Englishtown tomorrow. Then i'll come home, and transform the car over to drag race mode, and head over to Island Dragway for Sunday test and tune. Hope all goes well. If anyone else is heading to either racetrack, keep an eye out for me and say hi. I think 'my hemi" is going on sunday, and another 3rd gen bird that runs low 11's is coming sunday also.

 

I know, I know, nobody reads this junk anyways.. but it is a good way for me to keep all my stuff in one place to look back at and on the oddball chance that people can help out with what I am experimenting with, I still decide to post the details of my adventures.

Did get to Englishtown for the Swap-Meet/Car-Show event on Saturday. Rained when I was leaving, but that wasn't a problem. The crazy maniacs on the parkway and roads were insane. Even at 9 am on a Saturday, the trip was treacherous; those drivers scare me.





Had a good time at the show, met a ton of cool people and spent most of the day chatting tech with people. It was strange to see a boat dry-docked on the grass by where the 1000' cone used to be at the dragstrip. I walked through a portion of the swap meet but I didn't spend too much time browsing for parts.











Ended up very confused/surprised when they called my name for Top 5 of the whole show. I was hoping for mayyyybe top 25, but did not expect a Top 5 award. Pretty cool, they took my photo by the back wall and put it up on their website. The blue hot rod won best of show.










Drove the car home and pulled off the street wheels, removed the passenger seat, sound system, nitrous, so that I could pack my usual supply of tools, parts, and equipment for tomorrows dragstrip day.

 

Well done.

 

As for my birthday day at the dragstrip, well, I wish it could have gone better. I got there early like I always do and a handful of people I know were there also. My buddy John and his silver Trans Am came also, and he usually runs 11.1-11.2 range at 126 mph. He knew his clutch was on its last day, so he was easy with the car at first. I think he ran a best mph of 128 and his best 60 foot was 1.48 but I forget if he ran a best e.t. timeslip. He runs a 436 sbc N/A setup but with a 6 speed out of a dodge viper.

Anyways, the suspension stayed the same all day: front struts at 0.5 out of 5, and rear shocks were at 2.5 out of 5. Front skinnies were at 37 psi all day and the rear drag radials at 19 and 19.5 psi. Used 93 octane shell pump gas for pass 1&2, but added 1/2 can of VP Octanium (lead free) for pass 3&4. So my WOT timing for pass 1&2 was 35.0 deg and for pass 3&4 I raised the timing to 37 deg. The weather was ok, but the DA was about 1,000 all day. As was the case last time, there were a LOT of oil downs, cleanups, people who walked away from their cars in the staging lanes and backlogged the whole flow, and in general the track just moved very slow. Sadly, I only got 4 passes.











Pass 1:

Did a 5 second mid rpm burnout. I tried a 1,800 rpm 2-step launch and left at 1,849 rpm. I had done some street tuning of the 2-step to try to get the fuel table dialed in for a 2-step launch. The brakes held, but the car bogged but only a little bit. AFR went lean 19.7 and then rich 9.6. Once it recovered, the rest of the run was pretty good. As we discussed in some previous posts, I raised the rev limiter and shifted a bit higher than normal. Shifted 1-2 at 6,648 and it dropped to 4,838 in 2nd gear. Shifted 2-3 at 6,552 and it dropped to 4,868 rpm. Crossed the line right around 6,236 rpm. ET was slow, but my MPH was the fastest ever for me, at 116.59 mph.

Video:

Timeslip:

something is wrong with their clock, but only before 12 noon. This pass was actually at 11:40 am but the rest of my timeslips are accurate regarding the time of day. This is also the case with my track day 2 weeks ago. Weird.

Datalog:

-you can see the wild pink AFR right at my launch, and the bump in the red rpm trace prior to the engine recovering and running normally.





Pass 2:
Used the exact same tune file. Did a 8 second burnout and decided to foot brake the launch since the last run's 2-step launch went poorly. Launched at 1,769 rpm and then the engine bogged pretty bad...almost felt like I lost the transmission. So i got out of the throttle right away. Got on the throttle a little bit while coasting down the track looking behind me to see if I needed to pull off to the side. With everything intact and no smoke, I drove down the track and back to the pits. Looked over a few things and the datalog and could only determine that I needed to change the tune file. No real info to be gained from the datalog (as far as I can see??) but I drove the pits a bit to see if 1st gear and trans felt good, and it did, so I got back in the lanes.


Video:
(that chevelle went a 8.91 !)

Timeslip:


Datalog:




Pass 3: Put in a fresh tune and one that I had made for the VP Octanium octane booster. Supposedly, it is an actual non-gimmick octane booster that raises octane by several numbers, not by points of a number. I put in half a can and put my WOT timing table to 37 deg. I would like yo do more research on this topic, but feel free to comment. Did a 5 second burnout. Footbraked the launch at 1,840 rpm which is right around the brake systems limit. Since I had just experienced two bogged launches I was expecting a 3rd so I was hesitant to go full WOT. You can see the upper green TPS line in the datalog, I did not get to wide open throttle until i got into 3rd gear. However I did shift 1-2 at 6,433 and it dropped to 4,713 rpm, and shifted 2-3 at 6,604 and it dropped to 4,825. Crossed the line around 6,082 rpm.

Video:


Timeslip:


Datalog:




Pass 4:
A bit frustrated, i just wanted a good clean full throttle pass knowing that the track day was ending and there were just so many track cleanups I was not going to get the 6 passes I had hoped for. Used the same exact tune file as pass 3, including the 37 deg of timing with the VP octane booster. Did a 6 second burnout and footbraked the launch at 1,450 rpm. Car hooked to a normal 1.67 sixty foot and the converter flashed around 2,720 (little lower than usual now). Shifted 1-2 a bit higher than I ever had at 6,763 and it dropped to 4,868 rpm. It actually tagged my 6,800 rpm rev limiter just a touch. Shifted 2-3 at 6,605 and it dropped to 4,861. Went through the finish line around 6,203 rpm. Finally a good pass and with higher rpm shift points. Disappointed that it only resulted in a 12.005 at 114.09 mph.

Video:
-If I had run my normal 11.80-11.85 I would have had a real cool side-by-side pass with that 2nd gen camaro! Even tho I went 0.022 red, it would have been real cool side-by-side action. I started gaining a little back in the last couple hundred feet.


Timeslip:



Datalog:





Log book:



Sidenote: I put the Go Pro on the drivers side to see how much the rear end is squatting on the launch. I tried it on the passenger side, but it fell off in the staging lanes 3 times when the car was just sitting there doing nothing. I'll get it to stick better next time, but in each above video is some footage of the rear squat.. This photo would have been from pass #1 or 2 when I was in the left lane:




Anyways. That's that. I hope to go back in early May for a Friday night TnT. An 11.7x at 117 mph would really thrill me . I also plan on moving ahead with the 6-point roll bar project in late May.

 

I read them. But I'm not a drag racer, so usually don't comment. Just try to learn, though most of it goes over my head.

That's a riot. I can hear you talking in the pits after making a pass..."It launched hard, but was a little loose about 1000' out....you know, where the boat is". What other track can you say that at?


Congrats on the award BTW.

 

That depressed launch is a little disconcerting. Did you determine the cause? When you say you bumped your timing for the octane booster passes, where did you bump? Just more total? Or more off idle? The car sounds like it wants more...of something...to get from that ~2000 RPM launch to your torque peak. The gear drop to 4500+ is encouraging. Better than my less 4000 RPM 1-2 shifts for sure.
The fender mounted video in pass 1 showed decent separation between the tire and fender with no squat visible (that i could see anyway) but a view of the passenger side might tell a different story. I'd mentioned that I use air bags and bias the right side with an additional 10-20 PSI to keep the car flat on the hit. It also helps keeps the car in the groove instead of heading to the guardrail (although you appear to track nice and straight).

 

Thanks DynoDave, yup I hear what you are saying. Some of the other drag race guys post stuff that's over my head too and I read it and that keeps my brain learning. I enjoy it. The boat did throw me for a loop!

Skinny:
- I have sat and looked at the datalogs a bit. The only conclusion that so far makes sense to me is that the 2-step being in open loop and cutting timing while the sniper is still fueling, is causing a very rich mixture of fuel in the header and collectors. once I come off the 2-step and go into closed loop, the oxygen sensor is probably all wacked out as it goes into closed loop. I think I will work on this 2-step launch aspect more during the summertime when the DA is worse and I won't get my fastest 1/4 slips. I can simply just refine the launch process, so that come fall season I will be better off.

- For those octane booster passes, I bumped timing in the WOT cells above 3,400 rpm. I did not change any timing down low or at idle. That top darker blue box is the change I made at the track just after I poured in the VP Racing octane booster.



- I am happy about where the shifts are landing. Right at peak torque, and I am happy that the gears put me crossing the finish line just a tad above my peak hp area. However, I am not seeing the better timeslips. I still wonder if I am giving the engine too much timing, and as some drag race pals have suggested, bring it down to 33.5 or 34 deg timing at wot.







- I really wanted a passenger side view from the GoPro. Every time I would put the go pro suction cup mounted on the rear fender, it would fall off, and that was only while rolling through the staging lanes. Didn't want to loose the camera on the track, so I stuck it on the drivers side. Next time I will have some denatured alcohol to give the rea pass fender a good wire down and get that camera to stick there.

-I think we talked about air bags earlier, and another 3rd gen guy at the track also told me he used to have em. Made the car sit up tall. I've considered it, and I even did the research for the proper kit to go with the car. Might be in the future, but its an option. Thanks for your wisdom and tech help!





So,


Depending on how the week goes and the weather, I might hit the dragstrip this Friday night for Test n Tune and then take a break for a few weeks. So, I gotta make this next session count!

 

The adventure twists and turns! This one is not fun to type, but it is part of the reality and the journey.






So I planned on going to Island on Friday night for Test and Tune; had the car setup with the drag wheels on and loaded with gear but was watching the weather because there was intermittent and but high winds during the day. Turns out that Island canceled TnT Friday night, and that made sense because the weather was indeed lousy. So my weekend plans changed and I decided I would go to a car show with some buddies in Sparta. Just had to switch the wheels and unload the gear and put the sound system and passenger seat in. Since that was easy, I decided that I would finally tackle a small task that I had wanted to do this winter:


I have not been a fan of the Holley Coolant Temp Sensor being mounted front-and-center in the top of the intake manifold. To me it is unsightly and also, it reads the temp of the coolant just before it exists the engine/thermostat. Figured it would be more helpful to know the coolant temp in the cylinder head instead. So, the holley sensor is hard wired to the sniper unit, but MANY people relocate it by simply cutting the wire open and splicing in wires to extend it. Simple. Easy. No sweat at all. In doing so, I had to drain some Evans Coolant out,and I guess more spilled than I planned on. I was able to save some, but not much..

see the location of the sensor, like a weird totem-pole; no thanks


sensor moved, but pipe plug not installed during this photo, because this is where I added the remaining coolant into the engine. I put in two new and matching pipe plugs on each side of the thermostat housing.





So I moved the sensor after extending the wires. Easy. Fired up the car and was adding back the salvaged Evans coolant, as well as 1/2 gallon of Evans that I had remaining on my shelf. Sadly it was not enough to get everything filled, but I fired up the engine anyways and left it get up to temp. Temp climbed pretty quick and I knew the sensor was going to read higher, but it got real hot real quick, rocketing up to 230 and I shut it off. Its 8:30pm now on Friday night, and no local sores carry Evans. I also notice that the pesky SLOW and minimal drip that I have noticed under the car during the past few months is back, and is now steadily dripping coolant. My heart sinks, as I realize that I have made the slow leak now become worse.

Woke up early and drove my truck over to Power Portal Automotive in Hackettstown where they sell Evans. Got there 8am before anyone who works there arrived and bought 2 gallons. Drove home expecting to be able to put the coolant in, burp the system and see how bad the leak is....and if its not bad I was going to drive up to the car show in Sparta. Turns out the leak is even worse than last night, so I bag the car show idea, pull the car back in the garage, start cleaning up the the mess in the driveway and figuring out where the leak at the back of the engine is coming from. Soon I realize that it is fortunately NOT a head gasket...but its the back of the intake manifold. It is not going to fix itself, so I start digging in and disassembling everything. My thoughts were confirmed that the intake manifold gasket much have been very slightly breached before, and the events of Friday night probably opened the gasket's hole up even more. It is at the back of the engine, on top of cylinder 7. FYI, I know that I committed the cardinal sin of intake manifold removal when I used a screwdriver to separate it from the heads. As I was doing it, I knew I should not be doing it, but I was just so damn frustrated at that point in time). I will shave the divots and make sure the new gaskets seal nicely.















Very thankful it is not a head gasket. Just to be sure, I checked and torqued the head bolts that I could reach with the valve cover off, and along the bottom rail.





So, I gotta get gaskets for my Edelbrock Victor Jr. manifold. From my research it looks like Edelbrock #7201 or Fel-Pro 1206 or Fel-Pro 1205 gaskets. I plan on using a bead of black RTV on the front and rear china walls. Right? or what else?

The cooling passage dead ends here at the intake manifold. it does not cross flow, Anything you suggest I do to prevent this from happening again? Evans coolant runs at a very low pressure but I don't want to have to deal with this again.






Torque to 25 foot pounds in the proper order/sequence.






While I am in here, I am going to re-do some wiring and tighten things up to be even cleaner. I MIGHT take the time to drill and tap a hole in the actual manifold to thread in a NPT fitting that will allow me to run my PCV vacuum hose to this port, instead of the very tiny vac port of the sniper unit. Thoughts? I've seen it done before, and it will clean up my vacuum hoses at the back of the engine. Perhaps it can even be capped later if I do get an electric vacuum pump, OR I can run a semi-permanent vacuum gauge to this port if needed. Thoughts on sizes or if this could be a problem? I do know its common to do.

I am also going to relocate the huge oil pressure sender unit because I have never liked where it has been located near the firewall. Its bulky and in the way of wiring and will be in the way of how I route my nitrous lines/solenoids later on. So I want to move it to the oil pressure port that is directly above the oil filter on this Dart SHP block. This is the same port that I have used to check/verify my high oil pressure issues in the past. The tester gauge has always read exactly the same as my dashboard gauge, so I know that if I move the sender to this blocks lower port, it will read correctly. Any thoughts or advice before I do this?


So yea, exciting, but unplanned. The leak was not going to get better on its own, so its better it happened here in my driveway instead of when I was possibly real far from home out at an event.

 

I haven't used it myself, but I see a lot of folks who's opinions I respect saying that Permatex Right Stuff is a superior product to use on the china rail.

So, what happened here? Looks like the gasket wasn't lined up right form the beginning, with the bolt holes punched through half way out of the hole in the gasket?

 

Far and away the best product to use in this application. The cure time is very fast too which, if you're in a hurry, lets you start the engine without the requisite 24 hour wait that gives regular RTV it's best results.

 

Check your oil. I suspect you have Evans coolant in it.
That gasket walked more than I would have guessed.
Yes, drill & tap the manifold for a vacuum port. 1/8" NPT is all you should need.
And I always hated the size and location of the oil pressure sending unit. Move it to a better location.
But I would use a 1" long nipple with a cap to block the hole at the rear china wall instead of just a plug.
Or leave the brass 90* extension and just plug the end.
If you ever need to access that port, it will be nearly impossible to do so with the intake manifold on and all the other stuff in the way.

I spray the back of my intake gaskets with Permatex Hi-Tack, put them in position on the heads, and use (12) short 3/8" bolts with giant fender washers to keep the gaskets in place until the next day. Then install the intake manifold.

 

DynoDave : awesome, thanks for that info. i did a little searching after you mentioned it, and it looks like that is the best stuff to use. Grabbed a can of it this morning! i also agree with you, that it looks liek the gasket wasn't lined up and it was just a matter of time before it was breached. Luckily it didnt breach straight downward into the lifter valley, or I would have not known about where the coolant was going until a check of the oil. Speaking of that, I did check the oil while running the car and investigating the leak, and it looks clean and great, but I guess to be onteh safe side, I should do an oil change. damn, and this oil only had 400 miles on it since wintertime. I guess the oil filter too then?

Skinny, yup, glad you guys mentioned the permatex stuff. Luckliy some was available locally too

NoEmissions: yea as I roll the idea around in my head, i guess there has to be soem evans in the oil right? by the looks of where the breach is, I suspect some coolant was going out and down the back of the engine block onto the ground, but some might have trickled down intot eh lifter valley and mixed with the oil. I do like your idea of leaving a 1" extension piece of pipe or pipe fitting at the china wall port. I could envision trying to access hte tiny pipe plug later on and not beign able to get to it. A plug on a small piece of pipe would be easier to access. Great idea! Also good iea about thhe high-tak stuff. i dont have any here, but I might keep this in mind.


Update:


Did not have time today to work on the car, but did learn that Advanced AutoParts in Rockaway had 1 set of the intake manifold gaskets, so I went there this morning and picked them up along with the Permatex Right-Stuff gasket maker, and two different sized brass NPT fittings.

Possibly after work tomorrow I will get everything cleaned up and maybe get some parts reinstalled. I am happy about relocating the oil pressure sender, it clears up a lot of room back by the firewall. I was always unhappy about where it was since I put it in last winter.





I am not fully sure if I do want to drill and tap the manifold just yet. Not only do I not really need to at this moment, but if I go with the electric vacuum pump for the brake booster, I will then be making the large vac port on the back of the sniper available to be used by the pcv, which now is just going to the very small ports on the sniper baseplate. So, if I were to put the NPT pipe fitting barb into the manifold, I would then be capping it off fairly soon as it would be unused...unless I did ever decide to put a vacuum gauge somewhere inconspicuous in the cabin...then I would run the vac gauge to this npt port. Not really a fan of that idea, but maybe, maybe in the future I will revisit it. Also, on these victor junior manifolds, there really isn't a nice flat spot to drill and tap into, every surface has an angle, see photo of where my "best" spot would be, and if you look across from it, you can see the inside of the plenum area is a triangle shape. Also I do not currently have a NPT tap and die set. Lastly, I do not know where I want to mount the nitrous solenoids, lines, and how I want to position the spray plate. It would stink if I mounted this vacuum fitting and then it became in-the-way of the nitrous equipment. So, I might skip this whole vac port idea for the moment, but keep the fittings here on my parts shelf.










Anyways. I think thats it for now. I checked the oil a LOT of times during this, but I guess I should do an oil change anyways. Damn, this oil only had about 400 miles on it.

 

Small update, after work today I had two hours free, so i got everything as clean as I could and got the intake manifold set back onto the engine. snugged al the bolts down, and then torqued them to the proper spec in the order that is illustrated a few posts above. I used the permatex 90-minute ready "right Stuff" sealant on the Edelbrock 7201 gaskets. Letting everything sit overnight and tomorrow after work I hope to get the sniper back on, fuel lines, vac lines, and coolant in the system. I also have to reinstall the hyperspark distributor, phase it, set inductive delay, and whatnot. Going to top off the Evans coolant, recheck the torque on the bolts, change the spark plugs, hookup the throttle cable, TV cable, and tI have some wiring to clean-up and make even less visible than before. After that, I want to run the engine for a few minutes, and then drain the oil and change the filter. Does this sound like an o.k. plan, or am I missing something important?

 

Good plan, you have everything covered, but keep checking those intake bolts until they no longer move.
That might take a week, or even two. Aluminum moves around much more than cast iron.

 

thanks man! I checked em a few times already and will keep my 3/8" wrench on hand to keep checking them!

Got everything installed, checked, and double checked this afternoon. Put in new spark plugs and the distributor timing was set to match the hyperspark and all that needed to be done also. Got it up to temp and checked timing and static-timing. Also, no leaks of anything, so I am happy about that. Took some time to redo some of the wiring that got moved around during the disassembly. Things at the back of the firewall are much neater, and I am happy about that. Oil pressure if great (still high, but that's been discussed on and off for many months now) and the relocated oil pressure sender makes me happy. All in all, successful project, and it would have needed to be taken care of sooner or later because that coolant leak could have started dumping coolant into the engine without me knowing, so I am glad that this was tackled now. It was too rainy here to do a test drive, but I will do it tomorrow. Did a datalog while the engine warmed up and fiddling with the timing stuff. Will also change the oil and filter tomorrow, and hopefully if the test drive is good, will get the car setup for drag racing Test and Tune this Friday night at Island Dragway.

Recap with question: Just this past week I relocated my Holley Sniper's coolant temperature sensor. It used to be right in the intake manifold next to the thermostat housing and was very unsightly. I cut the wire and extended it, allowing the CTS to now be mounted in the coolant port that is on the passenger cylinder head between cylinder 6 and 8. I then put a pipe-plug at the hole in the manifold and I am very happy with the look.

I expected to read higher coolant temps, but now that I am visually seeing the higher temp numbers on my sniper's display, I am getting curious. Typically I was used to seeing 178-185 at the sensor when it was at the top of the intake by the thermostat. Now I am seeing 225-235. I used my temp gun to check the block, heads, manifold, and the temp gun confirms my 230 reading at the head, as well as the 175 number that is still at the pipe plug area at the intake manifold.

So, in short, the engine is running exactly the same, but I am wondering if these higher CTS values are now something I need to consider during changes to my tune files. What do I need to change immediately, and what should I keep an eye on and adjust later????

 

Engine will run leaner and pull timing.

 

well yes, but no...

I have the ability in the Holley sniper software to make it not pull any timing at all at certain/any temperatures. But your answer is exactly the thought process I’m digging into.

I just have to change the range of
temps in the graphs to have it pull timing wayyy later. Used to have it pull timing out starting at 205 deg(sensor in the intake manifold). Now I can simply just change that table/graph to have it pull timing at 245 or so. Engine is still acting the same, just getting temp reading from a hotter spot.

I only ask this stuff because I want to learn and understand, and I’m hopeful To make it to the dragstrip tomorrow night for what might be my last dragstrip day for a while as I have the roll bar install late May and then I will be switching the car over to autocross mode for June July

 

I'd be more concerned with a 235 degree operating temp than anything else. To me that's excessive.