Guys,

When I set my timing, it seems to jump up and down 2 degrees. I have a feeling it is a distributor or injector problem. Any one have any ideas? Could a injector problem do that? They are brand new 24# Accels.

 

Did you unplug the ESC connector before trying to set the timing?

 

Yep, Car ran fine after engine rebuild and then went down hill a couple weeks after that. Something is failing...

 

The Accel injectors are reported on numerous thread here to cause lots of reliability problems. 'Nuff said about that.

If it ran fine initially, and you haven't changed anything, I'd probably look for a vacuum leak. An old vac hose that has split or fell off.

Is the idle surging up and down? RPM shifts can actually cause the timing changes, but I didn't think it would with the ESC disconnected....

 

Thanks-for info. I smoked my vacuum line and can't find anything. Unfortunately the smoker does not use a lot of pressure so a split hose is something I will have to investigate. Any suggestions on which hoses and how to check them?

 

Timing should be stable with the ESC disconnected, even if it isn't running entirely smoothly... I'd maybe have the ignition module tested...

 

How do I have the ignition module tested? I bought an MSD Coil to rule that out.

 

The ignition module is the part that bolts to the base of the distributor (there are two connectors on the outside, and on the inside the pickup plugs into it)... Take the distributor cap off, then disconnect the wires, then unscrew the two screws holding it to the base of the distributor.. You can take it to most any parts store, they have ignition module testers there...

EDIT: just noticed you have an '87... You might have the large-cap hei with the coil in the cap... Same deal, different connections, take the distributor cap off and you'll see the module (will probably be a 7-pin hei)..

 

That's cool, I was always under the impression that they either worked or didn't. Could one thats dying a slow death really be possible?

 

VERY possible... have had it happen myself....

It seems you have some kind of ignition related issue, so testing that would be a logical first step...

 

Sorry to be a pain but what were your exact symtoms? Just curious.

 

If its a stock distributor setup for an '87, then its the small cap with a remote coil, thats what I have.

The flat plate inside the dizzy can get loose, my stock dizzy had this problem. My MSD dizzy is better mounted.

When the EST wire is disconnected, the timing should be dead nuts steady.

 

Doc - Thanks for the info.

What do you think I should do?

What are you reffering to when you say dizzy, the whole distributor?

What about the module can I just change that?

I have changed the coil to a MSD Super Coil.

 

oh no not MSD coils.. notoriously bad... bad bad.. i had one, failed in 3 weeks.. another member here who is a Moderator had one, failed in 2 months.. use a stock coil.. its more than enough. check the coil voltage with a digital multimeter tester.

 

jack:

Yes, when I say dizzy I am the distributor (cap, shaft, gear, rotor, and electronics located inside the cap).

If you still have the stock dizzy, check out the metal plate that is inside the cap (I think the cap actually screws done to this plate). This plate also has the electronics mounted to it. Do not confuse the coil with the electronics. We have a remote coil.

My stock dizzy had a loose plate, I could actually rotate the plate a lttle bit, since the cap screws to this plate, the 8 prongs inside the cap would then be indexed with respect to the rotor. So, effectively, the timing is changing.

I have seen in another post that the electronics can be changed separately. Do a search.

The coil is not the source of your problem (changing timing with the EST wire disconnected). I would barrow a dizzy from a friend who is willing to give up his/her dizzy for a day or buy a new one. I run the MSD dizzy in my '87. However, I am on my second MSD dizzy. The first one went bad after 9 years.

I also upgraded to a higher outpur reomte coil. The Blaster if I remember correctly.

Did I answer your questions satisfactorily?

 

Yes very nice, do you remember which dizzy you bought? If I remember correctly, I heard guys here on the board had got the wrong one on accident.

 

Do you have an ignition box? It could be malfunctioning. I would upgrade to a better coil as was mentioned if you dont have a box. Also, if you have an msd dizzy did you change the springs inside that control the timing? If you have a computer controlled dizzy then you wouldnt need to.

 

No I am not using an ignition box. If you look at my mods list, They are all fairly new, including my 350 rebuild. So, do to being broke now from all that I am using my stock 87 Dizzy which we just did a quick visual inspection(checking for looseness). The only upgrade I did was the MSD coil. Not sure what you meant with all that other mumbo jumbo.

 

Why is it that you seem to bash certain products whenever someone mentions one you dont like. What you said is BS...it's one thing to state your opinion, but to say it as fact is wrong IMO. So you had a bad coil. Get over it. That doesnt make msd products bad in general. You should have sent it back. Some of us ( I would guess alot of us) who use msd have never had issues with them at all. I personally wouldnt recommend anything else but msd. And even then I would also suggest that someone get opinions from others first before making decisions on what is best for them. As far as products having beem tested on the dyno, it's a fact that coils other than stock actually make improvements to an ignition system. So I would disagree that a stock coil is "good enough".

 

Thats fine...just checking. I would check the coil voltage as Killjoy suggested as well. I wouldnt give up on the coil. If your dizzy is msd as well I would contact msd and tell them whats happening. I am sure they will help you sort this out. Again, you could try a better coil. I had no problems with my blaster coil from msd. Sometimes you get a bad one. It happens with all products. I just went through this with two new msd 8361 dizzys for my efi to carb swap. Bought them from checker auto and they were both bad. The first one had been returned and they put it back on the shelf. The second one was new and didnt work right either. Must have been a bad lot. So I contacted msd and made them aware of it and then I bought another one from Summit. Problem solved...

 

what part of my post was BS??? did i state ALL MSD products are bad?? no i didnt.. did i state that me and another person on the board used them and they went bad? yeah.. which is truth.. is a stock coil good enough for a daily driver and even a modded car?? yes it is..

what part of my post is BS??

there are a lot of people that had bad coils from MSD.. so hence.. they are "notorious"(whichs means; known for having done something bad) therefore is truth.. i would say the same with Accel coils..

i only bash certain products that are known to be bad, or have caused people trouble for going bad. i post to let people know, that just because its a "performance" doesnt mean its good, and to let him know other people have had problems with a certain product failing.

to date, every MSD product has failed on me, except the cap and rotor. MSD 6A, MSD 6AL, MSD "performance Coil", MSD wires. i bought them all new.. and everyone of them has failed in under 1 year.. wires cracked(even when using wire seperators), boxes caused miss fires(MSD acknowledged this and sent me a new box.. failed too) coil was bad, ect.

I am on a first name basis with reps at MSD, i have been reimbursed from every part i bought because of warranty. So dont tell me i can and cant say things about products that fail. I used to love MSD, not saying i wont buy their products anymore, but if something is wrong with a car, and they have an MSD part on it, sorry but im going to suspect that part 1st. call me crazy..

and no.. i didnt install anything wrong.. so dont state that..

back to the subject.. have you checked the voltage on the coil and injectors? it could also be that the injectors might be dripping when not under full spray. not likely but possible. also check that fuel pressure reg. sometimes even the stock ones get stuck to some degree..

 

No, I'm not sure how to do that or even what voltage I would be looking for. I have a Superram so getting to the injectors is impossible without pulling the Plenum off. Can I check them with the Plenum off? If the voltage is not good, could that be a ECM failure?

 

You must have installed them wrong...

 

Picard - Please drop off my thread, you are clogging it up with bickering for a guy that is trying to get some help. Who really cares what people think about products being crap. Don't you make your own assumptions in the long run anyway?

 

Check the coil voltage....call msd if you cant get anyone to help you. It is only jumping 2 degrees. When I had problems it was jumping more than that. It could be an injector. I had a set of 30# accels that were going static on me and they were brand new. Swapped to ford svo's and the problem disappeared. I dont think its an ecm failure. You should be able to get readings from the injectors with a volt meter if you can reach them. I am not familiar with superram. Good luck.

 

Static meaning the voltage was screwed up? Not sure what Static means.

 

yes...

 

I assume you would check them while the car is running. Thats not happening if I pull my Plenum off. Any ideas?

 

I see in your sig you are a DIY prom guy. Which program are you using. Did you do any datalogging? Thats the best I can do for ideas...sorry.

 

Yes, a while back... It's been a while - still freezing here in Buffalo. I use TunerProRT and data log to Excel. Will that give me indication if my injectors are working properly?

 

You mention " Swapped to ford svo's and the problem disappeared." What were the symptoms? Like mine?

 

You should be able to read what the injectors are doing...try getting help for that on the diy board. I never checked my problem with accel injectors. I did a lot of research and found out my symptoms were of static injectors and switched to ford svo's.

 

OK I get it but what were your symptomns? I want to see if they relate to mine.

 

How many miles are on the engine? If the timing mark is moving around it could be the chain on its way out....

 

About 300, It's all brand new.