I looked around the archives and there seems to be many different opinions on the base intakes. I have a 396 small block with AFR195 CNC ported heads. I currently have a Miniram that I am replacing with a Super Ram. Please kindly refrain from the "Why are you switching" remarks. The Miniram is a better racing intake and the Super Ram is a better street intake IMO.

Anyway, I have a stock base that has been professionally ported by Doug Rippie Motorsports. The intake openings where the runners go on are as large as the gaskets for the Super Ram. I the openings where it meets the heads are exactly ported to 1204 and match perfect. I am considering getting the runners and stock base extrude honed for better flow (even though the inside is completely smooth). I have a great motor with great heads and I don't want to choke it with a poor base intake.

Money is really not an issue.

Thanks

 

I would buy the Accel base if money wasnt a problem. And then have it ported, My stock Accel base matches to a 1205 felpro on the intake ports. The runners are recontoured to increase flow not just larger. Looking at the two side by side there is no way a stock ported base will out flow a ported Accel base. The Edelbrock is the cheapest but in my opinion doesnt flow as well as the Accel out of the box. It has smaller port openings at the heads.

I agree with you about the MiniRam SuperRam issue. I know LT1 guys switching to SuperRams for the increased midrange torque it provides.



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Black 90 IROC, L98, A4, 323 gear. SuperRamed 406 in the works!

 

Mike, Thanks for the reply. I just ordered an Accel base from Jegs. They matched Lingenfelters price of $459.95 and they had it in stock. I'm going to take the base and runners to Extrude hone on Friday and have them ported and then match the plenum openings to the runners. Should make for a killer set up. The Miniram is great on the top end and my motor makes plenty of toruqe. The Super Ram properly set up should flow to 6000 (my motor now makes peak power at 5700 RPM with the MR. I want an emmissions legal intake and the drivablity the Super Ram provides. The Miniram is a bear to tune for the street. I had a Super Ram on my car when it was a warmed over 350 and had zero problems. Then last year I put a Miniram on and I have had driveability problems ever since. So I decided to put the Super Ram back on with some serious porting.

Jason

 

If your interested look in GM high tech magazine, I just got mine. Theyre building a 396 SB with a superram and AFR heads for their project Magnum car - Check out this issue!

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91 B4C 305 TPI - SOON TO BE 383
TREMEC 5-SP, STOCK 1-BOLT REAREAND w/342 GEARS, K&N, AIRFOIL
EDELBROCK HEADERS, DUAL CAT TO HOMEMADE Y-PIPE & 3.5" SINGLE PIPE W/ FLOWMASTER, CRANK PULLEY, MSD, FUEL PRESS REG, COWL HOOD, WELD WHEELS
14.1@ 98MPH
-------------
OTHER RIDE
67 CAMARO - STREET CAR, BIG BLOCK, PUMP GAS
350TH w/ATI 10", 12-BOLT w/373 GEARS
10.47@129 1.55 60FT. ON MOTOR - ET-STREETs w/MUFFLERS

 

Thanks. I have that issue too. I'm near that shop and had my car dynoed there one time. They also hate Minirams. I'm most likely going to only have the base extrude honed, maybe the runners but I doubt the plenum. I plan on going to Extrude Honed on Friday and talk to them about the whole deal.

Jason

[This message has been edited by 89vette (edited August 22, 2001).]

 

I know that the boards are not meant for any classified ads, but are you going to sell the MiniRam ? I may be interested if you are. Please e-mail me and let me know either way, Thank you...

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1991 Camaro RS/Z28,polished TPI, 355ci. Sportsman 11 heads, LT-4 Hot cam,Pete Jackson gear drive, on,and on, and on... 13.4 @ 105.98 with a 2:77 rear, no traction, no tuning, no practice. Car is pictured in Chevy High Performance magazine, June 2000 issue.
http://www.geocities.com/jasonsz28us/INDEX.htm


1997 GMC Yukon, 4 wheel drive, leather, loaded, Gibson exhaust, K&N intake, Boston pro series speakers..... That's it so far.

1969 Camaro,12 point cage, total project right now, I am planning an LS1 - T56 - and a Vette independent rear. Pro Touring crowd, look out! 8^)

 

Jason..What kinda of drivablity problems did you have with the MiniRam? I know some cylinders run richer than others with that intake.

I just got that issue of GMHTP. I wish they would have used the 23*trickflows. Thats what IM using on my 406 would have been nice to see what kind of numbers they turned with them. Oh well I will find out soon enough for myself My 406 is ready to go I just have to make the time to install it.

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Black 90 IROC, L98, A4, 323 gear. SuperRamed 406 in the works!

 

Miniram is sold. Thanks for your interest.

Jason

 

I received my Accel base today and took it over to Extrude Hone. Very nice facility. The inside of their manifolds look like glass. I also saw a pallet of LS1 heads there from GM but he would not tell me exactly why. Hmmmm.

Anyway in a direct comparison between my fully ported stock base and the Accel base there is really no diffrence. The Accel base has slightly straighter path to the head. I will therefore be using the Accell base and sellign the fully ported stock base.

Is there anything I need to know about the Accel base with installation? The quality looks ok.

Jason

 

Damn dude, you really took the hard way out.

I talked to a guy who used to work at extrude hone in CA, and he said that the stock base has more meat in it for porting, and it makes sense. He also said that a ported stock base will flow the same as a ported aftermarket base.

The only way for you to tell is to have both intakes flowed on a flowbench, extrude hone can do that for you, that's the only real way to tell. If you decide to run the Accel base, then get it hand-ported or extrude honed anyway.

The problem with the superram is airflow. The miniram flows around 320 cfms stock but the accel base only flows like 250. Added with the superram runners, the flow reduces to 240 or so. In order to make the whole package flow for more cubes, you still need to get your lower and runners either hand-ported or extrude honed.

Don't believe that the base as it comes from accel is as good as it gets, 'cause it ain't.

Get it ported.

Even in LPE's catalog, it says that you can pick up 20 hp by porting the base and runners. The downside to the superram is the total cost to get it to flow with the miniram. Even after porting, it will only flow close to 300 cfms if you are lucky.

Hand porting is much cheaper than extrude honeing, but if you get it done, tell them to open up the runners to 1 3/4 and have them gasket match also.

[This message has been edited by 89gta383 (edited August 24, 2001).]

 

I am getting the
Acell base Extrude Honed and also the Super Ram runners. Ultimate top end horsepower is not my goal. There is so much more to a nice engine combo other than how much peak horsepower it makes. How about driveablity? To me that is the real goal is to have a motor that can offer gobs of power and still start and cruise like a stocker.

 

Jason and I have talked many times privately and I have assisted Jason in trying to resolve driveability problems with his Miniram.

While Jason has made much progress in overcoming his driveability problems; the bottom line is he prefers TORQUE as his primary purpose is "street". If his primary purpose was "track", then Jason would have built a different combo.

As for "flow", when the head's ports "only" flow 256 cfm @ .500+ lift, there is no need to have the intake flow 320 cfm. To get heads to flow in that range, you need a good set of "off-road" heads like a good set of 18*. This alone shows the Miniram's intended "match".

A properly setup Superram can match a Miniram and vice versa for performance with properly matching components. The Superram will have more low rpm torque and the Miniram will have more high rpm hp. It really is a matter of preferences and intended uses. For Jason's intended uses, a Superram makes more sense, especially as he has emission requirements also.

While I personally prefer the R&R of the Miniram, I also personally prefer the "torque characteristics" of the Superram. But, when it comes to building an engine, a person should build the engine to what THEIR intended use is...and not what their buddies prefer.

FYI, one of my buddy prefers the power characteristics of an LT1, Mustang or carbed engine...though my "basically stock L98" out accelerates them. I have driven them and I dislike having to rev the snot out of my engine to make any power. I guess that is why my 200,000 mile engine hardly burns any oil, and his supports Saudia Arabia.

PS: I get 29 US MPGs on the highway...there are advantages to a functioning EGR with Highway Mode invoked, besides meeting emission requirements. You can have your cake and eat it too, if you set it up right.

 

Well, here's my take on this.

I'm in the process of building a 434 SB for a friend of mine who wants a minimum of 600 HP to go in his 86 Vette.

We sent his miniram and two sets of aluminum heads (All Pros and Brodix) to CA to be ported and flowed by a guy who use to work for Extrude Hone, but is now in business for himself.

Here's what the flow bench told us:

The miniram flow 314 after he did some some mild clean up. At that point a great deal of turbulence set in which prevented more flow.

Bob cut the miniram apart and did some extensive port work, then put it back together and the turbulence was gone, but flow only increased to 320.

The Brodix heads flowed 340 after he did some clean up and reworked the short side radius a little, but when the heads and intake were flowed together, the flow fell off to just below 300.

HUH?

Bob explained that for a set of heads to flow to their max, the intake manifold must be able to flow a lot more than the heads can. He continued that the manifold serves as a reseviour for the ports, so according to a formula he has, the intake has to flow in the 400 cfm range before it stops actings as a restriction to a set of heads which flow 340.

So he cut the intake apart again, and did a lot of recontouring (welding) inside the manifold; put it back together, flowed it and saw some improvement.

He then cut it open again and did more work. Finally, after all that work and with the heads and manifold bolted together he got the heads to reach their full potential of 340 cfm.

Bob said the miniram now flows close to 400 (four hundred) cfm @28 inches of water.

He's getting his work and results covered in one of the mags, I believe it's Super Chevy.

I was really surprised at this because I always thought that the heads would at LEAST flow the same as the manifold. Now I see that a manifold acting as a restriction to the full flow potential of the heads drops total flow BELOW what either of them can flow.

Bottom line: A set of heads that have extremely good flow numbers won't flow nearly what they're advertised to flow if the manifold restricts the flow.\

Hope this helps.

Jake

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1986 Corvette Coupe, 415 CID, Edelbrock 6073s, ZZ9

[This message has been edited by JakeJr (edited August 26, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by JakeJr (edited August 26, 2001).]

 

Thanks for the info Jake. I noticed your comment about the intake acting as a "resevoir" and I believe that this is when the size of the plenum becomes important.

It has been my feeling that the biggest drawback of the Miniram is it smallish plenum size.

It would be interesting to see the total flow results if a Superram was used with its larger plenum size. I am willing to bet that when the plenum size is larger (all things equal) that the difference between how much the intake must flow to allow the heads to flow to their full potential would be decreased.

 

Again, the top end capability of the Miniram is not something I really care about. Some people just want the most hosepower even it if occurs at an extremely high RPM. Lets face it, alot of people just want the bragging rights of having a 500 HP or a 600HP motor. No one ever says "I have a 500 lbft motor". I only drag raced my car twice and really don't care to do it again. Its just too hard on it. If you have ever missed third in a $4000.00 ZF6 transmission while powershifting, you'd know what I'm talking about. For may people out there, the Miniram works fantastic. For me it does not. I mean it does but there a small quirks that I feel should not be there. 99.9% of people would think my car runs great and that I'm crazy. Maybe I am. But as I said, I prefer the Super Ram over the Miniram to meet MY goals. They are both great intakes that serve two different purposes.
PS What's up Glenn? I haven't chatted with you in a while.
Jason Norris

 

All the above info given by Jake is all the more reason to get the superram and base extrude honed to the max. If you've got out of the box AFR's that flow 260 cfm, and a superram that flows 240-250 cfm stock, then you are choking the heads. The one good thing about the miniram is that at least you can bolt it on without having to port it some. Nobody said TPI intakes were cheap...

 

I'm not complaining about the price....and my Super ram is Extrude honed.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JakeJr:
[B]Well, here's my take on this.

I'm in the process of building a 434 SB for a friend of mine who wants a minimum of 600 HP to go in his 86 Vette.

We sent his miniram and two sets of aluminum heads (All Pros and Brodix) to CA to be ported and flowed by a guy (Bob Jones) who use to work for Extrude Hone, but is now in business for himself.

Here's what the flow bench told us:

The miniram flow 314 after he did some some mild clean up. At that point a great deal of turbulence set in which prevented more flow.

Bob cut the miniram apart and did some extensive port work, then put it back together and the turbulence was gone, but flow only increased to 320.

The Brodix heads flowed 340 after he did some clean up and reworked the short side radius a little, but when the heads and intake were flowed together, the flow fell off to just below 300.

HUH?

Bob explained that for a set of heads to flow to their max, the intake manifold must be able to flow a lot more than the heads can. He continued that the manifold serves as a resevoir for the ports, so according to a formula he has, the intake has to flow in the 400 cfm range before it stops actings as a restriction to a set of heads which flow 340.

So he cut the intake apart again, and did a lot of recontouring (welding) inside the manifold; put it back together, flowed it and saw some improvement.

He then cut it open again and did more work. Finally, after all that work and with the heads and manifold bolted together he got the heads to reach their full potential of 340 cfm.

Bob said the miniram now flows close to 400 (four hundred) cfm @28 inches of water.

He's getting his work and results covered in one of the mags, I believe it's Super Chevy.

I was really surprised at this because I always thought that the heads would at LEAST flow the same as the manifold. Now I see that a manifold acting as a restriction to the full flow potential of the heads drops total flow BELOW what either of them can flow.

Bottom line: A set of heads that have extremely good flow numbers won't flow nearly what they're advertised to flow if the manifold restricts the flow.

Hope this helps.

Jake



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1986 Corvette Coupe, 415 CID, Edelbrock 6073s, ZZ9