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running issues, looking for suggestions or help.

Old 12-16-2018, 09:10 PM
  #1  
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Car: 1988 Iroc-Z
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Transmission: rebuilt 700r4
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running issues, looking for suggestions or help.

Hello everyone. long time lurker and i finally joined after exhausting my options. I had bought a 1988 iroc-z 5.7L. it had a bad 700r4, i managed to get hold of a rebuilt one and get this thing going. however i have motor issues. now i dont know if i have a bad MAF or the MAF plug but it is disconnected. i will have a new plug in a few days, already on its way. however from my understanding it should still have decent performance, just not all of it. i do not know what has been done to the car but i notice there is copper silicone around the intake, water pump, that leads me to think maybe it might have a cam. okay so on to my issues...

I have reset the TB air adjustment per factory spec after a really good cleaning, then i did the TPS adjustment to .54V, and then i set the timing. i have tried 6 as per factory, all the way to 12 with no improvement in idle or performance. before i did this it had a lot of power, but would idle at 2k till i put in gear, then 1500 while in gear. the air adjustment screw was so far in i could not even get the car to idle or start without hitting the peddle.. now it is way out. but the car idles around 850-900 then 700-750 in gear.

it sounds like it has a cam in it with the way it idles and runs, also seems like it starts loading up on fuel at low rpm and low throttle. at WOT from a dead stop it will burn the tires a little and take off, but i lose most of the power just over 2500 rpm. at that point it will still accelerate, but is lacking a ton of power. before it would roast them and pull hard through first, then burn a little into 2nd. any idea's? i know i am losing HP but i do not get why.
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Old 12-16-2018, 11:14 PM
  #2  
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Re: running issues, looking for suggestions or help.

OK, just found out i did it wrong and have to start all over. i found a newer tech on it. i have to unplug the EST and set the timeing to 6BTC, then i have to plug it back in and disconnect the battery for 30 sec. then i have to paper clip the AB ports on the odb1 connector and turn power on, wait 30 sec and unplug the IAC. then remove the paper clip and start the car. set the idle to 600 in gear. { last one said set it to 400-450 and i did}. then turn car off, then cycle power on and reset the TPS again becuse it will be off now that i have reset the base idle again. it said to set it to .54v last time. new report says .416-.642v. sense i seem to be running so rich i am shooting more for the .416v. maybe that will help a bit till i get the MAF issue taken care or.

so far i have had to have all 4 tires re balanced, new rear link kits. new coolant temp sensor i have to put in still. right now it has an aftermarket gauge. the distributor, cap,wires, and internals had already been replaced before i bought the car. new burn off and MAP relays, rebuilt 700r4 trans, however it needs a corvette servo and a shiftkit still { after i fix the MAF system}. egr system has been mostly removed. new front lower ball joints. new headlights. I had to buy an aftermarket tach for now till i get to order a digital cluster for it. I am waiting on my order from rock auto with a new IAC, door pins, and MAF pigtail, then i can test the MAF and replace if needed. after the main stuff is done i am going to change the rear gears to 3.73 i think. i dont need to go 150+ that just puts me in jail, but i could use the extra acceleration at the local strip to play around on weekends. I also plan on repainting it red wine metallic with a dark base, or root beer metallic with a dark base.
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Old 12-20-2018, 01:28 PM
  #3  
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Car: 1988 IROC-Z
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Re: running issues, looking for suggestions or help.

You really need to get a scan tool to see what is going on.

TPS should be above .5V

Idle could be high due to vacuum leak. Where are your IAC counts? BLMs?

Running without a MAF obviously is not a good thing, I assume you have a SES light on? Have you checked your codes to see if there are any other issues going on?
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Old 12-20-2018, 06:53 PM
  #4  
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Re: running issues, looking for suggestions or help.

No i have not been able to buy a scanner yet to check them. I have the timeing, IAC and TPS set now. idles about 850rpm when warm and 650-500rpm in gear. I had to adjust the idle air screw out a lot from where it was when i bought the car a few weeks ago. this thing has been an investment to say the least but thats why i bought it. i like projects. I hope to get a scan tool sat after work, I also received my MAF pigtail and IAC. I already put in the pigtail and when i hook up the MAF i get the same result even after disconnecting the battery. it starts and runs for a few sec then stumbles and dies. after i unplug it it starts and runs, just missing a decent amount of power. I hope to be able to buy the MAF this weekend as well. all depends on when the boss pays us. before or after the holidays.

Do you have any recommendations on a scan tool for it?
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Old 12-20-2018, 08:59 PM
  #5  
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Re: running issues, looking for suggestions or help.

I run WinALDL with an XP laptop.

There are other solutions out there. None are bad as long as you can see real time info.
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Old 12-25-2018, 06:57 AM
  #6  
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Re: running issues, looking for suggestions or help.

sorry, i have to wait for pay day. they didn't pay us before vacation. lol. i did get it to idle lower now starts up and runs 1k-1,200 then settles down to 850 when warm. only it has a miss to it or lope again. but idle issue was fixed with a new IAC. i set tps to .54V. however i pulled a spark plug. they look lean running. so i pulled the FPR vacuum while running for a bit. there was no change at all and no fuel leaking out of the hose after about 20 min of running. but it run the same with or without it hooked up. no change in exaust smell. seemed like it was not even running richer like it should with more fuel pressure. I have a bunch of stuff saved in my rockauto account i am going to buy soon, and a new MAF from orileys.
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Old 12-27-2018, 10:36 AM
  #7  
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Re: running issues, looking for suggestions or help.

okay little update. I pulled the plenium off. and pulled the FPR and noticed it was cracked. it was the orange aftermarket one. i ordered a new acdelco FPR, intake up gasket set, air charge temp sensor, and a fuel rail o ring kit because i found the 9th injector line is lightly leaking at the rail. i also order a new MAF. I have talked to tuned performance and he will burn me a chip for me removing the egr for me so it will not set codes for it. I think i only have a few more sensor's left to replace now. the oil pressure sensor, o2 sensor, and the dual blade temp sensor on the front of the lower intake, and the knock sensor. all others will have been replaced. I still need to buy the adal cable or make one. hope to do that soon as well.
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Old 12-27-2018, 12:08 PM
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Re: running issues, looking for suggestions or help.

The two blade sensor on the front of the intake is the coolant temp sensor. It is the same part number as the one under the plenum the manifold air temperature sensor or iat . If you chose to block the ninth injector and go with later programming 89 here is a nice block off kit.
what error codes are you getting ?

https://www.hawksmotorsports.com/85-...or-delete-kit/
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Old 12-28-2018, 05:16 PM
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Re: running issues, looking for suggestions or help.

oh wow that is a nice kit. i book marked it for my next payday. i kind of like the cold start feature, but if it is going to keep leaking i might just delete it. i have been reading and it seems like there is always an issue with them leaking. as for codes i have not bought or made the cable yet. i took out the cluster and noticed the dang SES light has been removed. i have to put in another then do the jumper to get codes. right now though i can not do that. top end is apart and i am waiting for fedex for my parts today so i can put it back together. i did however take everything apart and cleaned it with degreaser and carb cleaner. even after my last cleaning with the TB on it did not do a good job. so i broke out my gun cleaning set and a brush set and went to work. it dont look new by any means, but dang it is clean. no more carbon around the butterfly's and no more in our around the IAC or the air intake temp sensor. the odd thing is the sensor it shows for my car is different that the one it it. dont think i should try it as it could throw everything off.

this is the new one.. no solid tip. old one is solid like the normal water temp sensor like you said Tuned.
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Old 12-28-2018, 05:54 PM
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Re: running issues, looking for suggestions or help.

Question regarding the AIT sensor. If the EGR is deleted in the tune, is the AIT sensor necessary or can it be removed?
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Old 12-28-2018, 06:53 PM
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Re: running issues, looking for suggestions or help.

Originally Posted by Ty92Z View Post
Question regarding the AIT sensor. If the EGR is deleted in the tune, is the AIT sensor necessary or can it be removed?
the iat must remain it does help with fueling not just egr function. The above pic is a iat there is a enclosed iat that will work as a cts as well. It just has a covering over the thermistor.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-...26#post1474826

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-...-question.html


Last edited by Tuned Performance; 12-28-2018 at 07:00 PM.
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Old 12-28-2018, 06:56 PM
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Re: running issues, looking for suggestions or help.

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Old 12-28-2018, 08:11 PM
  #13  
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Re: running issues, looking for suggestions or help.

so, i get the fuel pressure regulator installed, new runner gaskets installed, plenium and TB on and everything hooked up... ran it till it warmed up. ran good but idle was high. once warm i checked the timeing with the est wire unplugged, held 8* BTC solid, to then i killed it and reset the ecm, then did the jumper for 30 sec and pulled the idle air plug. started it, put in gear and set base idle at 550. killed and reset everything again. then turned power on/ not running, and set tps to .55v and tighten screws and rechecked, it was at .56 so still within spec. started car. idle was perfection. let it run a while, rev a few times, put in gear and tap the gas a few times, no issues. idle at 650 in gear and 850 in park. went out for a 2 mile drive. floored it a few times. pulled decently, no skips or loss of power. pull back into the garage and have this funny idle in gear. trying to post a vid of inside the car in gear and out and back into gear. then the second will be out of the car in park. will running without the MAF make it do this? tomarrow i hope to get the ses light in it and pull codes.

would only let me upload them on youtube. sorry.
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Old 12-29-2018, 12:05 PM
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Re: running issues, looking for suggestions or help.

It’s been awhile since I’ve worked on a tpi maf system. I think with the maf unplugged the ecm uses tps feedback and load values and even a simulated air flow value. Atleast on a test bench I get grams per second readings without a maf. The Car should run rich and I’d expect the idle might suffer. Make sure you disconnect the battery for 10-15 min before you drive and try to retrieve codes.
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Old 12-29-2018, 12:20 PM
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Re: running issues, looking for suggestions or help.

hmm. something is not right then if it should run rich. i pulled the plugs {pita for some of them } and all of them look like they are running lean. i dont have a bad gas smell or even a rich smell. almost like it is lean. it is still is missing power though. it pulls great and hard at low rpm but as they come up i lose power fast. in second at low rpm i can floor it and it pulls good but you can feel the power roll off as the rpms come up. i am going to get my heater going in the shop to warm it up a bit and pull the cluster so i can replace the lights and the temp gauge. then i will jump the odb plug and get some codes. i would rather get everything running and driveing good before i worry about cosmetics.
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Old 12-29-2018, 05:06 PM
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Re: running issues, looking for suggestions or help.

grr. got the cluster apart, replaced all the bulbs and cleaned all contacts with crc contact cleaner, swapped the temp gauge with the original cluster, hooked everything back up and reinstalled. started up and it kept dieing. check engine light came on. paper clipped it and got code 12 and 34. i know 12 is normal and 34 it MAF. so i pulled the cables and let it sit for 5 min. hooked back up and restarted. idle was eratic and died a few times till it warmed up a little bit. 29 out so it is cold. lol. temp gauge was working and all lights work. SES came back on. killed car and pulled codes again. 12 and 34. okay started it back up, temp gauge pegs and dont work again. lol. went for about a 5 mile drive, every time i stopped the car surged 400-750rpm, but otherwise ran decently. only loss of power is from the MAF not working. came home, checked again. same codes. so now i will have to wait till my MAF comes in next weekend and see if that fix's the odd idle.

on a side note. glad i had to drop the steering colum. i notice there was a nut in the dust cover that fell when i took off the cover.. it was one of the 2 that held the colum in. but now it has both with blue lock tight and torque down.. lol.
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Old 12-29-2018, 06:07 PM
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Re: running issues, looking for suggestions or help.




Here is a trouble tree for 34, it might be a wiring issue or bad ecm.
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Old 12-29-2018, 06:13 PM
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Re: running issues, looking for suggestions or help.

awsome. that gives me a good starting place if the new MAF dont fix the code when it comes in. i know the one on it right now is bad. the fine wire inside is actuly broke and the outside of MAF looks terrible, paint falling off, seal starting to hang out. so i ordered a new one to hopefully fix the issue. i do have a question though. on the positive terminal on my battery i have two extra wires with fuse holders in them, both have good 30 amp fuses and are good, but what are they for?
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Old 12-29-2018, 06:18 PM
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Re: running issues, looking for suggestions or help.

Afaik there should just be one 20 amp fuse on the fender. This is for the fuel pump and ecm constant power.
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Old 12-29-2018, 06:20 PM
  #20  
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Re: running issues, looking for suggestions or help.

okay. i will have to trace them down and see where they go. i did notice the car had an alarm system in it. one someone added, then removed but left some of the wireing so i had to remove it and hook everything back up normally.
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Old 12-29-2018, 09:37 PM
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Re: running issues, looking for suggestions or help.

okay, one went like you said, to the fuel pump relay, the other is one someone wired to the second fan that for some reason dont turn on, but i dont need it to luckly as the car dont get above 190. i also have yet another question. lol. okay, i noticed i have a light pinging noise from my transmission, so i unpluged the knock sensor and it seem to idle/ run better but have rocker arm chatter if you rev it. only at low rpm though, once above 2k the chatter is gone and everything sounds good. do you think maybe it could be picking up the tinking noise from the trans and thinking its the motor doing it?

i think it is the converter. i have the old one but i have to flush it out somehow before i can put it in. only tick's at an idle though and i am not sure of anything about the converter, the other i have is a stock one out of a 91 camaro. it was in the first trans i pulled out of this car. the PO had swapped them out becuse the original had burnt up, then the one he put in did because they didn't keep fluid in it and it had a leak. i put this rebuilt one in i bought but, the guy didn't know anything about it other than it came out of a truck and hooked to a 350 that was carburated. so maybe the stall is wrong.
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Old 12-30-2018, 11:40 AM
  #22  
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Re: running issues, looking for suggestions or help.

also a quick update. i left the jumper on while the car warmed up, it was in open loop and once it warmed up i could hit the gas and it would go into closed loop. also it is definalty running rich as it burns my eyes now. lol.. just waiting on the MAF to come in.
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Old 12-30-2018, 01:20 PM
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Re: running issues, looking for suggestions or help.

You can use a timing light to see if it’s pulling timing. A scanner or tuner pro rt would be very useful to see if it is.
a cracked flexplate or valve train noise could be seen as false knock.
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Old 12-30-2018, 02:36 PM
  #24  
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Re: running issues, looking for suggestions or help.

well i set it for 8* btc. seems to idle/run a little better. when i hook up the est wire, it jumps to around 16-18 and when i rev it in neutral it jumps far past what i can see.
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Old 12-30-2018, 06:17 PM
  #25  
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Re: running issues, looking for suggestions or help.

okay, i pulled the dust cover and re torqued the 3 bolts to the converter. i had them at 30ft lbs, so this time i did 32 and used blue locktight. noise is gone. i also swapped the govener with the one from the bad trans. it made a big difference, it had lighter springs in it. now it shifts a little higher up in the rpm and downshifts better. i also notice that when in gear the car will go if i let off the brake. not fast but it will stll go. i am not sure if the converter is messed up or not unlocking all the way or maybe it is way to low of a stall. so... ugh.. when i get the shift kit and servo i am gonna pull the trans and change converter as well.
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Old 12-31-2018, 05:40 PM
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Re: running issues, looking for suggestions or help.

well took it to the store and car wash today. after washing it, its still nasty old blue bass boat paint. lmfao. put some gas in it as well. runs okay, other than the idle when stopped and the early lockup at low rpm and speed. i noticed when i got home and killed it and got out it smells like raw fuel for some reason. never any drips, i look around all the engine fuel stuff and everything is dry. only seems to do it when i drive it. hope its just running rich from the MAF i am waiting on. says it should be hear by friday.
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Old 01-03-2019, 08:18 PM
  #27  
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Re: running issues, looking for suggestions or help.

well. i found out my fuel smell. the vacume line that goes to the charcoal canister was shot. so i got to get more line and replace it, then i want to look by the tank and check out the rubber back there and replace if needed. my MAF can in today. its not the wire type. it is the film type. kind of odd. but if i read correctly i can use it just like the wire style with no issues. i hooked it up and wow.. everything idles smooth as butter. but now i have to redo my iac and everything as it idles higher than suppose to. but other than that it rune good. no check engine light or anything. gonna drive it to work tomorrow as long as it dont freeze and we dont get more snow. lol. i hope to buy the cable before long so i can get some readings and stuff and have Tuned burn me a new chip.
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Old 01-03-2019, 08:35 PM
  #28  
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Re: running issues, looking for suggestions or help.

Originally Posted by TheFryer View Post
my MAF can in today. its not the wire type. it is the film type. kind of odd. but if i read correctly i can use it just like the wire style with no issues.
Expect a code 36. It will be a non issue. Have it turned off in your tune.
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Old 01-03-2019, 09:07 PM
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Re: running issues, looking for suggestions or help.

Originally Posted by KyleF View Post
Expect a code 36. It will be a non issue. Have it turned off in your tune.
thats for the burn off not sending a signal to the ecm right? i drove it about 5 miles, but i know it can take some time before a code sets.
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Old 01-04-2019, 08:50 AM
  #30  
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Re: running issues, looking for suggestions or help.

Originally Posted by TheFryer View Post
thats for the burn off not sending a signal to the ecm right? i drove it about 5 miles, but i know it can take some time before a code sets.
Exactly, I went trough this, and some other forum members have as well. It seems some film style MAFs have a circuit to send a spoof signal to the ecm with it gets the burn-off voltage, some don't, some send a voltage and it is out of spec... some have issues some don't. You know how it goes with a "new" design.

Just wanted to give you that note so you don't waste a bunch of time trouble shooting a Code 36. It will not matter with that style, but the annoying dash light will be on and you will have to continually check it for other codes because you won't know when a new one shows up. So, if you are getting a custom PROM, have it turned off in the .bin.
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Old 01-04-2019, 08:04 PM
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Posts: 65
Car: 1988 Iroc-Z
Engine: 5.0L LB9
Transmission: rebuilt 700r4
Axle/Gears: 2.73
Re: running issues, looking for suggestions or help.

KyleF, Thank You. i drove it to work today {37 miles one way} it drove great, however the ses light came on. checked it at lunch and yup, sure enough, #36. lol. well atleast i know it is something to not worry about, how ever your right. that dang light after dark for 45 min is really annoying. i put electrical tape over it for now and i will check for codes when i get home every day to make sure nothing else pops up.
TheFryer is offline  
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