Hi! I am Tom from Germany. Have a 1987 Trans Am 305 TPI project car. Missing the transmissions but i bought at last a TH700R4 with 27 splines (also 1982-1984 modell) with damage rear gear. Now i saw in ebay Germany a TH200R4 transmission with converter. But i have no informations from this transmission. Can i put this transmission into my car? How many gears have this transmission? Have it the same lenght as the original TH700R4 or must i buy a other "torque arm" (the wheel from the transmission to the rear axle)? Have it a electronic speedometer (hava a digital dash into my Trans Am)? Was happy for help! Thanks and greetings from Germany/Bavaria, Tom

 

welcome to the boards. Pretty crazy when you can talk car in two languages. I'm pretty sure it will bolt right up because 82 camaro and firebirds originally came with them.

 

They came with the TH200C, not the TH200-4R.

 

There is no provision for the torque arm to mount. You can bolt this trans up but you will need to get a trans crossmember from Spohn Perf. it will allow you to mount the 200-4R in and bolt up the torque arm. As for the length, I'm not sure if there's a difference or not, when I was looking into it I was told that it is shorter than the 700-R4, so you would need a longer drive shaft. The trans crossmember they sell is a complete bolt unit, I had to get one for my car when I converted from the 200C metric to the 700-R4 and it was truly a bolt on item.. Good luck and welcome to the boards..

 

gm didnot make a 200-4r with a chevy bell housing. it will not bolt up to the engine unless you do not use the top two bell housing bolts. all the 200-4r's had the pontiac bell housing. they made a chevy bolt pattern for the 200 metric but not the 200-4r.

 

also note, the 200r4 is the weaker brother in the r4 familly, a friend of mine got his car stolen and the autopac shop replaced his 700r4 with a 200r4 and he blew it up the same summer with his moderately modded 305.

 

Some 200-4Rs had only the BOP pattern, some had both the BOP and 90 degree Chevy patterns.

 

Boy this thread is filled with some real garbage.

The 200-4r is a great transmission. It is far superior to the 700-r4 in several ways. THe 200-4r never did come in 3rd gens but it is almost exactly the same size as a 200c and th350.

Notably the 200-4r came in the turbo GNX and monte Carlos. And they make plenty of power.

If built correctly the 200-4r can withstand 1000+ hp so....

FWIW i'd get one if i had the chance. But then again i'd rather do a t56.

 

The 2004r came in the 89 Turbo T/A factory with a Spohn style torque arm mount. It uses the same driveshaft as the 700r4. Been there, done that.

This is a great transmission. Most of them are universal bolt pattern with a few early ones from 82 and 83 having B-O-P only bolt patterns.

 

Thanks for your information! I drive the last 5 years 4 Firebird (1989-1992) V6 and now i restore a 1987 Trans Am 305ci TPI. The V6 have no power... Was a great fan of fbodys and drive to any German Fbody and US Car-Meetings every year. My friend was a mechanical from a GM-Shop here in Germany. So i know many about this cars and all versions. But with the transmissions i have a problem. I know from the TH200c from the Camaros and the TH200R4 into the 1989 TTA and the monte carlo, but the TTA Engine was a buick Engine. A good friend tell me from great problems with the TH200, TH400 and TH700. He repair US Cars at over 30 years. Only the TH350 was good transmission he said. But i want a transmission with 4 gears and overdrive. And the TH350 needs a other torque arm as the TH700R4. I have a TH700R4 with 27 splines and damage rear gear. What does you mean to repair this? My other idea was a Borg Warner T5! Was it the same into V6 and V8´s? Sorry for my bad school english! Greetings from Germany, Tom
P.S. German Message Board: www.bandit-online.de
My website with pics from meetings: www.fbody.de

 

Its no big deal to use a 2004r. You can customize the front mount by making a bracket to mount it to the crossmember. Just a little mathematics and a little welding, no problem. For your car, a turbo 350 is more difficult because you must also use a different length driveshaft. Although the turbo trans am engine was buick, the transmission was a universal fit housing that fits chevys, too. turbo 350 and 400 have no overdrive. To repair the 700r4, you must disassemble the whole thing. I think that is harder than the custom torque arm bracket. Changing to standard shift is difficult. The v6 and v8 trannys are different.

 

far superior? enlighten me, please... considering the new tranny that i rebuilt myself didn't last more then 1000miles vs a mildy modded 305

I'm not an expert or anything so i have no real defence to argue; but this is previous experience and that's what my info is based on

 

hey guys, i would like to apologize for the mistake about the 200-4r bell housing. my scource was incorrect. i'll make sure to bouble check it next time. thanks apeiron for catching it.

 

Sometimes I think the whole idea of transmission "strength" is a flawed concept.

Some people will say that the TH350 is "stronger" than the TH700R4, but their designs are very similar. The TH200-4R is "stronger" than the TH700R4, but the hard parts in the TH200-4R are smaller and lighter than those in the TH700R4. Even worse, the TH200-4R is just a TH200C with an overdrive unit kludged on to it, and the TH200C is almost universally regarded as trash.

In actuality every one of these transmissions is probably just fine, as long as they're built properly and used within their limits. In stock configuration though I wouldn't expect any of them to take any serious amount of abuse.

 

there's the whole story.

 

I’m not sure where they’re all that similar… nothing interchanges, valve bodies are completely different…

the 700 has larger gears then every other GM tranny, but it also has quite a few major aluminum pieces where the 200-4r has those same pieces made out of steel.

I’ve always wondered how similar the 200 was to the 200-4r, I was under the impression that when it came down to it the 200 was pretty similar to the 350, or at least more so then to the 200-4r

that depends on what the real use is. For what he described any of them should be fine. Stock for stock, assuming that you pick similar performance valve bodies (for example, a vette 700, gn 200-4r and a performance app 350, they will all pretty much hold the same power level before breaking. Built up it seems that the 350 is the cheapest and easiest but the weakest, followed by the 700 and then finally the 200-4r is the strongest.

The 400 and 4L80 are in a totally different league then the rest of these. They are almost indestructible in a lighter car, even in stock trim (these things were used in the heavier duty light trucks, even busses…), and built up are next to bullet proof. FWIW, the 4L80 is pretty much the only one that is “just an overdrive added” to something else, in this case it’s just an overdrive added to the 400, so much so that you can even do “gear splitting” like you would with a gear vendor’s OD added to another tranny.

 

200 4r came in 3 versions

BOP

Chevy

and BOP/Chevy cases

200 4r can indeed be built to take a lot of power

I would consider the hi po factory versions to be equal to a v8 700r4, stock to stock I would have to give the nod to the 700 for strength though.

Once u start talking modified, I would rather spend the $$$ on getting a 200 4r rebuilt with the heavy duty stuff vs blowing money on a 700 once a car with any weight in it gets to the high 10 barrier. There are quite a few 200 4r's doing 9's and getting by on once a year refreshes with new clutches and bands once done right. Also of note, they do have a superior gear spread vs a 700 and it eliminates the nasty 1-2 bog that 700's have.

All us GN/Turbo buick guys were hammering the 200 4r with a lot more power than 700 users when they came out and there is really some trick stuff out there for them. Won be cheap lol but sure can be done.

Dont knock them until u have torn apart and built them :-)

The 350 to 700 has much more in common as far as trans layout goes than a 200c does to a 200 4r.

Also wont argue once u hit the crazy power levels if u want OD your best friend may well be the 4L80E's.

later
Jeremy

 

sounds like we're both on exactly the same page

 

yall forgot about the th250 trans, in which is 95% identical to the th350 except for adjustable band and the big X on the pan

otherwise good luck telling one from a th350

the thm200 and the thm250 and the 2004r are all the short tail version, just like the th350 with the 6" tail(69-72 2wd trucks, and the `69-up cars(68 camaros too)

was also the thm375B

stronger version th350(400 internal parts but 350 output shaft- found in big body cars and such), im unsure how many different tailshaft housing lengths they were made- probably 6" 9" and 12" im sure, or possibly just two of those lengths, they arent very common at all

all of these are the length of the thm200c third gen cars and the thm2004r cars also,

700r4 are 3" longer and so are the 73-up th350 2wd truck th350's


its easy to be confused

the th350 is what throws it all off and messes people up because there was the 6" and the 9" and the 12" tailshaft housing length versions(al 2wd ones) and then the 4wd truck ones were no tailshaft housing at all and super stubby short

and then the th400 were two different lengths also

so that doesnt help much either


and then the different bellhousing bolt patterns, three different GM ones

chevy, then BOP, and then the BOP plus chevy combo(caddy included)



we could spend all day and night on this topic, as theres quite a few wierdo trannies GM made, and lengths and cases bolt patterns and so forth

and then manual trans lengths and stuff is a whole new world,

good luck

 

Well, let me put it this way… I decided to short circuit the whole breaking driveline parts thing by getting this:


it’s a 4L80e out of a 1 ton van, supposedly “just getting comfortable at 900hp” with just the addition of a transgo kit, and much more then that with some selective replacement of some hard parts. Right now the top contender for a torque converter is a triple lockup disk, 9.5” PI/vigilante which is rated at 1600hp (well the clutch is the weakest part and rated at that).

I probably won’t break these, IF I can figure out how to actually get them in the car.

BTW, yea, that is a BIG HONKIN carbon fiber driveshaft next to it, out of the original vehicle, something between 4.5 and 5” in diameter and right around 11 lbs.

 

torque arm elimination is pretty easy. how do you plan on controlling the shifts?

 

The TA is a no brainer. I’ll just custom make a TA and crossmember (I’ve been meaning to move my TA mount to the crossmember anyway), so that’s a non issue. Really that’s less of a hassle then most of the rest of this swap.

I’m probably going to use a TCI TCU to control it. Looks like using a factory truck ecm would be REALLY easy, but the TCI unit has enough cool extras that it’s worth the $5-600, especially considering all the minor BS that I’d end up doing (I’m **** retentive, the first step to dealing with it is admitting it ) if I did the truck ECU thing. I’ll probably harness that **** retentiveness to build some sort of paddle shift assembly.

 

sorry to bring this thread back to life after a while but you guys seem to know what you are doing so I figured I would ask. I have a 700r4 in my 87 Iroc now with the hurst dual gate shifter 282-0000 and was wondering would the shifter work with the 4l80? or would I just be better off doing 200r4 swap? 500+ hp 406 sb in there now and probably swapping to sb2.2 motor later so that would do about 720 hp would the 200r4 handle it OK?

 

the shifter should be OK.

WRT to transmission choice it's more up to torque capacity then aything else...

 

so which tranny would you recommend?

 

a 2004R would own in a 3rd gen with 3.73 gears. The problem is you need a different crossmember and a longer drive shaft. Also you need the BOPC adapter, it's like $80 at Bowtie Overdrives. It's a big plate that goes between the bellhousing and block. I would like to do a 2004r conversion soon. Much better 1-2 gear splits.

 

the cross member is available from Spohn and the adapter isn't needed just get a 200r4 with chevy and BOP bolt patterns. available on most of them except for the early ones 82-83 I think.

 

You need to get a series 3 which is 88-91, not a series 1 like you recommend. I have not seen nor heard of 2004R's with chevy patterns. Easier to get the BOPC adapter. Yes you can get the xmember from spohn, or Bowtie Overdrives. Drive shaft can be done at any local shop.

 

this is just an example but it is from an 86 monte carlo hence the chevy bop bolt pattern. it was also earlier than this one.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1986-...spagenameZWDVW

 

I doubt that you’ll be making the torque to warrant a 4L80e. If it costs you the same to either way I’d go with the 200, but otherwise, I’d go with whatever is cheaper/less work, which will probably be the 700.

The 200 has better gear ratios for a more serious car, the 700 has better ratios for a street car, the 4L80 is a big, heavy monster that is a PITA all the way around but once you put it in, figure out how to control it it’s pretty much bullet proof.

 

honestly from what I have seen the 200r4 is actually a little cheaper on quality parts than the 700r4 the only plus is the 700 is already in there so no mods needed to install. but the 200 is only around $400 to install and I have seen them hold up to quite a bit and they were a factory install on the factory gm turbo cars. I don't recall the 700 being in anything from the factory with a turbo.

 

so a couple months later, hows that 4l80 coming crossfire?

 

heh, I didn't even realize that it's a couple of months... honestly, I didn't order the rest of the parts that I needed to build up the 4L80, converter… till the beginning of this month and I’ve been messing with other stuff since then (eye surgery, my vision is just settling down now, family BS, my WS6 springing a leak and oiling down the clutch and my truck blowing a headgasket…).

I don’t think that I’ll get back to the formula till probably the middle of next month at this rate.

 

When you get around to it crossfire it would be wonderful for you to do a write up on the 4l80 for all of us to learn.

 

4l80 = 2004R
4l60 = 700R4

4l60E = Electronic 700R4 (A$S tranny, avoid. Needs special controller to install and setup, around $1100 for the controller itself)
4l80E = Electronic 2004R (Awesome tranny, holds hella power, comes in newer chevy trucks. One of the best auto's for drag racing)

2004r = 700R4 as far as installing, maintenance.

2004r is shorter than 700R4, has different gears. 700R4 has more agressive first gear, wider 1-2 gear split, 2004r has less agressive 1st gear, much closer 1-2 gear split. 2004R has more of an over drive (0.64 vs 0.70)

Tons of threads about that stuff that I've written myself in the tranny section.

 

Well, then I’d suggest that you start rewriting.

A TH200-4r is actually a TH200 with an overdrive added to it.

A 4L80e is actually a TH400 with an overdrive added to it (so much so that it can function just like a TH400 with a gear vendors bolted to it). The hard parts from the first 3 gears are largly interchangeable.

There is no relationship between the 200-4r and the 4L80, no parts interchange, nothing about them works the same way. Put the 2 of them next to each other and it's a lot like comparing a Yugo to a dump truck, or maybe a pomeranian to a bull mastiff.

The TH700r4 shares a lot of design features from the TH350, but are nowhere near as similar as the 4L80 and 400. The 700 did become the 4L60 but ended up getting a different case and valve body, only the gears are the same at this point, and the hard parts got upgraded in the last few years to become the 4L65e heavy duty transmission.

The 200-4r died with the death of the G-bodies in ’87, it’s actually physically smaller then the 700, about the same size as a TH350. The TH400 is bulkier then all of these but with the short tailhousing still fairly short (with the 9” housing they used in the Cadillacs it got pretty long). The 4L80e is MASSIVE, it’s longer and bulkier then all the rest of these, about 80lbs heavier then a 700r4/4L60. Hell the stinking stock converter weighs right around 90lbs. It uses a 35spline input (the 700, 350 and 400 all use a 30 spline, and the 200r4 uses a 27 spline) and an output yolk unlike anything that I’ve ever seen before (of course it was attached to an almost 5” in diameter carbon fiber driveshaft). I swear that yolk weighs 10-15lbs.

All of these trannies were used in both cars and trucks with the exception of the 200-4r, which only saw duty in cars, and the 4L80e which only saw duty in ¾, 1 ton and heavy duty truck/utility chassis (like full sized busses used them).

As far as a write up… I’m sure I’ll take plenty of pictures and answer any questions that I see, but I’m not sure what you’d want in an article. Right now I’m at a slight bit of a loss WRT to durability modifications for the internals since TransGo’s and Precision industries recommendations actually run counter to each other, especially with the clutch apply modifications. I’m leaning transgo’s way since they have nice explanations that make sense and even reasons why just raising line pressure doesn’t work in this thing, but of course, PI warns that _I need_ to do their modifications for them to honor the warranty on the triple disk lockup clutch that I’m using (rated at 1600hp )

 

I currently have a TH350 in our 82 Indy Pace car & are looking for better economy due to our 3.27 ratio posi disc brake diff. Would the TH200R be a good choice of trans for us?

 

A T2004r could work well ,but i think economy difference would be nil-I almost installed one of these in my '82: got the tranny from a 1981 impala-dual pattern bellhousing,one of the very first t2004rs: 9-80 built.Forget the exact #s,but these are only about 1/4" longer than a t350-should be able to use same driveshaft,do not remember if same crossmember can be used.Torque arm mounting will be custom.Chevy use of the t2004r is rare and spotty-this tranny usually found behind an Oldsmobile 307 or Cadillac 250/HT4100,1981-90. It is indeed based on the th200(1976-84 usage) and shares some parts.

 

Need some help here on my 82 z28 it’s leaking bad what do I need to do to fix this please help I’m pretty sure it’s the dipstick tube???

 

Need some help here on my 82 z28 it’s leaking bad what do I need to do to fix this please help I’m pretty sure it’s the dipstick tube???

 

There is a TH200 (non-lockup) 3spd, TH200-C with lockup, and 200-4R with 4 speeds and lockup.

I have had multiple 200-4Rs and multiple 700-R4s in the same vehicle. First, if you can score an unmolested, unrebuilt, unit with the original factory converter, from a higher performance vehicle, that's good. The valve body and governor calibrations make a difference in the feel and shifting.

I prefer the 200-4R for ratios. Both are good transmissions and I obviously didn't turn away a good working unit, since I had the driveline and crossmember parts anyway.

 

Small kine old thread if you start at the beginning, not gonna quote the person that said this thread is filled with garbage but wanted to pose the question of what did TTAs come equipped with?

 

Oh this thread is filled with garbage.

People apply the bad rep of the TH-200 and TH-200-C transmission to the TH-2004R transmission. Those people don't know any better.

The TH-2004R transmission came in the Buick Grand National, the Buick GNX, other Buick Regal Turbo cars, and the 1989 Turbo TA. They also came in the Monte Carlo SS and other GM cars.

They are more compact, lighter, consume less power, and have better 1st and 2nd gear ratios and a better overdrive gear ratio than a TH-700-R4. Many of them, and any of them you want to start with as a core to build into a performance OD transmission came with a multi-fit bolt pattern bellhousing that will fit any of the GM performance engines in cars you would want to upgrade to a 4 speed automatic OD transmission. The World ain't just Chevrolet. There is Buick, Oldsmobile, Pontiac, and Cadillac. The TH-700-R4 fits Chevy 90 degree and Chevy 60 degree engines.

GM made two mistakes in my opinion, using the TH-700-R4 and Tuned Port Injection in the 3rd gen F-body cars and C4 Corvettes. Both of them are for trucks, vans, SUVs, and heavy body on frame cars.