So, the rear tires are bald, and the right front tire has lost all of it's tread in a matter of a month, on the outside corner. I brought my car into my suspension shop today, for two new P245/60r15 BFG Radial T/a's, and one new P225/60r15 for the front passenger side.

They just called me back... can't align the car. The lower ball joints have reached their wear indicators, and need to be replaced ($41 each). The center link is worn out at the pitman arm, $110 for a new link. The struts are shot (I knew that), $134 each. And the upper strut mounts are blown, $118 each! Total bill, with labor and an alignment, was $890.72!

Everything else I kinda figured, that's why I was going to rebuild the whole front suspension this year- but the upper strut mounts? What a bummer. Gotta go to the yards to find a late-model, low-mileage f-body to grab those mounts off of. I have one spare in the basement, but that's more like an "emergency" spare- it was the original passenger side upper mount off my '86. The one on there now is from the '84 parts car.

So I told the guy to just put the tire on the front. I really didn't want to do any work until the summer so I could put on all new parts, but now, I don't know. He said the car wasn't unsafe, but basically, handling has gone to crap. What sucks is, if I replace the upper strut mounts, that forces me to get an alignment. 'Fact I can't really replace anything without affecting the alignment. And I'd hate to even put a new center link on old tie rod ends and an old pitman arm and old idler arm! (sigh) I did get a chuckle out of the labor for the ball joints- $140. I can buy a real good ball joint press for $120.

 

Damn! almost 900 bucks for the front end rebuild! that's alot. Looks like summer is coming a bit early for ya! Are you going to rebuild the front now or still try to hold out. Wearing a tire out in a month could add up quick. Of couse there is always the option of discount tires. Sucks that it's gonna be cold this weekend. I know I'll be hibernating rather than wrenching.

 

Ha ha ha. I love it how labour is more then the tools they use. Oh well its there way of making money.

So your car must handle like a row boat right about now with all that stuff worn out.

 

Im feelin your pain Tom. Im in the same postion as you are right now . My whole frontend is pretty much shot to hell ! ....I have the original tie-rods on the car with 196,000 !!!!!!!

 

It lost it's cornering ability a while ago, as the struts died. My buddy lives out in hicksville, and he's got a nice winding road going to his house- great for giving the suspension a workout! When I first started going up there, I had a blast on those roads. Now, I gotta take it easy, because the car won't grip. I think his road is to blame for my worn out struts.

I'm going to -try- to hold out... we'll see how worn the new tire gets. I'm going to see if I can hit a junkyard soon for some upper strut mounts. I'll leave the struts alone, they can wait. Only bummer is the center link; I'd replace it, but who knows if the pitman arm itself is worn out? It might ruin the center link in short notice.

The ride is much different with the smaller tires on the back, though. Feels like the effective gear ratio is back to where it should be.

 

Tom, just do it all at once. Get KYB struts and shocks from summit ($49 @f & $18 @r), Moog ball joints are ~ $24 @. Can't remember the rest. Pitman arm is non-wear. Get the inner & outer tie rods, center link & idler. Then get some solid tie sleeves.

I'll only use the solid sleeves any more. Why? Because the split sleeves w/clamps HAVE to be positioned correctly or the clamps/bolts will hit the frame and bend the tie rod. Thereby re-aligning the front end (for the worse). Not too many (if any) alignment folks know that!

If you can swing it get some poly lower A arm bushings and do them too. Note that doing this ups the work load quite a bit.

Otherwise it is quick to do the steering linkage, struts and shocks. When I did it I also pulled the steering box, adjusted it and replaced the rag joint. Check this piece as they have a habit of turning into silly putty (or as they say in Philly, 'puddy'). Lots of steering play then. I actually got one off an older car that was still in good shape.

Goes real quick when you can drop the steering linkage all out at once and lift the preassembled pieces back in.

Can do it in two stages: do the steering linkage as a set then the ball joints & struts/shocks as the other set (note that I recommend replacing both front struts and rear shocks as a set).

RBob.

 

until then take it easy on windy roads we don't need another parts car around here or a dead tomp

 

Oh you bet, Andy, I can't go fast on windy roads anymore, even if I wanted to!

RBob, yeah, I've been planning for doing a full rebuild this summer. Originally I was going to get a PST kit, but I hear they're just repackaged ES bushings. And PST uses an overseas supplier for their hard parts- still got a good warranty, but I'm definately going with Moog. PSC sells a kit with ES bushings and Moog hard parts, it's a bit pricey, but it includes everything. I'll have to compare their price against Summit's and see who comes out cheaper. I was thinking about going with KYB's AGX struts for the front, but with the roads around here being as full of holes as they are, I think it'd just be a waste of money. And I'm dumping the air shocks this summer, too, and those $20 KYB's are probably the ones I'll get.

Did you replace the control arm bushings? I've heard they're almost impossible to remove, and most guys bring 'em to a shop to have the bushings pressed out. I'm hoping to do it myself (front AND rear control arms), but nobody talks about doing it themselves. There's a local shop that's kind of like a http://www.harborfreight.com , they have some small hydraulic presses for $50 that I might invest in. They're basically bottle jacks in a frame... I welded a frame up myself for a tubing bender when I was going to make a strut tower brace, came out pretty good, I could always try welding up a press!

I hear they don't even make the rag joint for our cars anymore. Some guys have changed them out on the suspension board using new parts meant for other cars; I gotta do a search on it. I've got an IROC quick ratio steering box that's been in the basment for a few years that I'm dying to put on!

Thanks for the tip on the solid tie rod sleeves. Do they do anything for handling? I know they yap about less flex and all, just wondering if it's true or not. And Pitman arms really can't wear out? That's cool! Maybe I'll order myself a JC Whitney center link and slap it on for the time being. I think they only want $40 for one! Haha....

MD, yeah, I'm gonna try to hold out for the summer. I'm keeping watch on that one new tire; if it starts wearing badly, I'll swap it for the driver's side one. No sense ruining the new tire right away! I was really looking forward to putting a whole complete suspension in at once, not part-by-part... bummer.

Wayne, the guy behind the counter thought my mileage was 149,000! He told me that was pretty good for balljoints. I laughed and told him it was even better than that, I'm at 249,000 miles! That's what regular lube jobs will do for ya!

Joe, yeah, I always get a kick out of it. Plus they've got the lift and all the special tools; it'd probably take them 5 minutes to do what would take me an hour. I've been going to these guys forever, and my dad for years before that, they're pretty honest. They once put my car on the alignment rack, found out it was perfectly aligned, took it back off, and only charged me $15 instead of $40 - the hourly rate it took them to put it on the rack! What's cool is the guy told me exactly what was wrong- I kinda know exactly what to replace. 'Course I'm gonna do it all, but still, it's nice to know what's shot.

And I do find it odd that I'm still on the original tie rod ends, too, Wayne! Hell, don't those things wear out? I've replaced the center link and idler arm once already (both in '95), the struts in '96, but never a tie rod end, inner OR outer. Go figure.

 

You can do your own aligment if your careful as take your time.

Just need some long straight stick and a mesuring tape.


That pirce sound hi too, a whole front end kit is only like 300

 

Yeah, but they also included struts and upper strut mounts. Those upper mounts are expensive to begin with, I think their price is pretty accurate for them. That's why I'll get mine from a junkyard. I could've probably gotten new struts for free- the struts on there are lifetime warranty- although I assume they figured a car would last over 100,000 miles. Those struts have about 120,000 miles on 'em.

 

Tom , Let me know what parts you buy , because sounds like you really know your good parts to , and I want to get the same parts as you do !...Wanna know something really amazing ?!?!?!?!?! My car has not had a "lube job " sence 97 ....That's when I started changing my oil instead of taking my car to Jiffy Lube . I keep thinking every oil change , I need to do a lube , each time it just slips past me . I get busy with school or forget about it ! Im also on the original rear shocks on my car !!!!!
My car does not need a frontend re-build as bad as yours does , buy mine is still bad enough !

 

Yes, the lower A arm bushings were also replaced with the PolyGraphite ones. Had a shop do them. They hat tanked the arms & I painted them gloss black. When you do ball joints or the bushings use some moly lube (used for new cam or assembly lube) on the area that contacts the A arm as it is pressed it. Will keep it from seizing halfway in. Some folks use anti-seize on em.

I don't know how much the solid tie rod sleeves help handing. I just got tired of having the toe off due to bent tie rods.

The rag joint only comes as part of the lower steering shaft assembly ($$$). It is from the flex joint (under hood, near firewall) to the rag joint.

RBob.

 

spohn makes a front end rebuild kit for 300 bucks...id check into that

 

Hey guys,

I have some front suspension trouble too. My alignment is off, but I also bet there's a lot of wear on everything on my beater. I think my front struts are shot (the car bounces up and down when I press on the front end strongly), and I am almost positive there's a lot of wear in the suspension.


My problem:

I really know very little about suspension.
Any good pointers? books? links?

Also, could you move this thread to suspension board, if I haven't done a search I would've never found this useful thread...


Thanks!

 

If you'd do another search, you'd find that there are tons more posts with tons more information in them over at the Suspension board!

RBob, I never thought about having the arms hot-tanked! How'd they come out?

Wayne- 1997? Damn, dude... is your gun outta grease or something?

 

I did that and found tons of very useful threads on alignment and read them all, thanks! Do you know of any books on suspension you'd recommend?

 

Came out nice and clean. Some light surface rust which is normal for a hot tank. Welded up the oblong'd sway bar link holes, quick sanding and degreasing, then primer, then paint.

Did the bushings and ball joint before the paint. Didn't want to scratch it now. I used gloss black. Did the same on all the steering linkage pieces.

RBob.

 

hehe Tom , ... MAN , heh , here it goes again , I keep fogetting . And I have like 3 grease guns .

Glad I remeber to change my oil when I need to !!!