Alright. I think I've come to the conclusion that this thing is not getting fuel. How did I make that assumption? Well, when you turn the key to "On" the fuel pump comes on, right? Now, when you unscrew the cap on the fuel rail, you should be able to press the schrader valve, and get a stream or spray of fuel (yes, I wore glasses ), right? I get none. If you dump fuel in the intake, it'll start. So, I'm thinking fuel filter, or (God forbid) fuel pump.

Anyone have any other ideas? Or, am I even testing this right? Help me guys... I want this thing back before T-Top season!!


------------------
-------------------
-Steve-
--'87 Camaro LT --
Successful 2.8->3.4 swap...

 

When u turn the key to on, not starting, can u hear the pump turning on?

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1989 Firebird
2.8 v6, t5 swapped in

Ram Hi-po clutch, Cold Air, 1.6 rockers,Lakewood LCA's, Lakewood Lift bars, Wonder Bar, 3" y-pipe, Random Tech Cat, 3" I-pipe, Flowmasters, MSd 6a, MSD Coil (Fireball in future) Accel 8.8 wires, MSD Ignition Module, Auto Meter Gauges (Water, Clock (needed one) Fuel Pressure, and 5" monster tach) 4th Gen Seats


" I'd rather run last in a full out race, than to NOT run at all ".

 

100% correct.
Go visit the gas tank area and listen.
Hopefully, you'll hear the pump.
IF NOT
Investigate WHY the fuel pump, which before operated!, now decides not to.
Trace that detail as you did the lack of spark.
You are closer to getting it started.
Keep at it!

------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA

 

This "code 54" chart will help you, 87CamaroLT. Although you're not getting the code 54 (are you?), it'll help you trace all the wires, and test 'em. Hopefully it's as simple as that fuse, underneath the hood, mounted by the front fender, on the upper passenger frame rail. (Step 2A below)


-----------------------------------------------
DIAGNOSTIC CHART FOR CODE 54 (2.8L MPFI ENGINE)
---------------------------typed by Tom P------

Preliminary stuff:

Ignition off for ten seconds.
Ignition ON, listen for in-tank fuel pump
Fuel pump should run for 2 seconds after ignition on

Not ok? See "1"
Okay? See "6"

1. Ignition off. Remove the fuel pump relay, but keep the harness connected. This is
____located on the top of firewall, driver's side, on a relay bracket. It's the leftmost
____relay, with a connector that has these wires: Tan/white, black/white, green/white,
____orange, orange.

____With the relay still connected, back-probe terminal "A" (that's tan/white, circuit
____CKT #120) with a test light to ground, make sure you can see the test light from the
____driver's seat. Turn the Ignition to on (don't crank the engine/start the car). The
____light should turn on within 2 seconds.

____Light on? See "1A".
____Light off? See "2".

___1A: Repeat the test on CKT 120 (tan/white) at the rear body connector. You saw this
________connector if you replaced the fuel pump, it's in front of the tank, against the
________top of the underside of the car.

________Light on? Faulty pump ground or pump (ouch!)
________Light off? Fix the open (break) in circuit 120.

2. Disconnect the pump relay. Put the ignition on, engine stopped. Probe the fuel pump
____harness connector, terminal "E" (orange on the edge of the connector, Circuit 340)
____with a test light to ground.

____Light off? See "2A"
____Light on? See "3".

___2A: Repair open in CKT 340, this comes off of both your "computer-and-oil-pressure-
________safety-switch" setup and your "fuel-pump-and-computer-fuse".

________Your fuel pump/ECM fuse is under your hood, screwed down to the upper-frame-rail
________on the passenger side of the car, close to the air cleaner & black fuel-vapor-can.
________You'll see two little black boxes, each with two wires coming out of them, screwed
________down to the upper frame rail by one screw each. One of them has a red wire and an
________ORANGE wire coming out of it- that's your pump/ECM fuse holder. Pop the top off
________to see the fuse. (The holder with red & brown wires is for your MAF sensor.)

________Now, two things could happen here. You could have a bad fuel pump fuse- check the
________fuse. If it looks okay, replace it anyway... sometimes a fuse can look good, but
________really be blown. The second possibility- I want you to probe the red wire on the
________fuse holder with a test light to ground. The red wire goes to the positive-
________junction-block on the radiator support- your pump/ECM fuse might not be getting
________any power! If the light doesn't light, check the red wire hookup. However, with
________either case your computer would be acting up, too, and I don't think you could get
________the car to start at all.

3. Connect a test light beteween pump connector pin "B" (black/white wire, CKT450) and
____pin "E" (orange wire from step 2, CKT340).

____Light off? See "3A"
____Light on? See "4"

___3A: Repair open CKT 340. The black/white wire isn't making a good ground. Sorry, I
________don't know where this grounds out to. I'd imagine it goes to a screw on the car.

4. Connect test light between pump connector terminal "C" (dk green/white wire, CKT 465)
____and ground. Ignition to "off" for 10 seconds. Note test light within 2 seconds after
____ignition "on".

____Light on? See "4A"
____Light off? See "5"

___4A: Faulty Relay! Hey that's cool, a $10-$15 part from the GM dealer! But, if you
________replaced that already, something's funny. You might want to do the chart again.
________Note: The manual continues to test the "oil pressure safety switch", I'll put
________that test at the end of this message.

5. Ignition "off". Disconnect ECM A-B connector and check for an open, or a short to
____ground, in circuit 465- that's the dark green/white wire from the relay. It's on
____terminal "A1" of the ECM A-B connector.

____CKT 465 okay? See "5A"
____CKT 465 Bad? See "5B"

___5A: Check resistance across pump relay pins "opposite harness connector terminals B
________and C". Should measure 20 ohms or more to be good.
___________Resistance good? Faulty ECM A-1 connector, or bad ECM
___________Resistance bad? Replace Relay AND ECM.


___5B: Fix CKT 465. If CKT 465 was shorted to ground, re-check for a light "on"
________between harness connector terminal "C" and ground within 2 seconds after ignition
________"on".
___________Get a light? Cool, reconnect your relay
___________No light? Faulty ECM terminal "A1", or bad ECM.

6. Clear codes. Start engine and note service engine soon light. If the light comes
____on, check the code, if it's not 54 or you don't get a light, it's something else
____wrong, or an "intermittant" problem. But you get the code, so I shouldn't have
____even bothered typing this.

7. Backprobe ECM terminal "B2" (that's tan/white, CKT 120) with a test light to ground.
____Ignition off for 10 seconds. Note light within 2 seconds after ignition on.

____Light on? See 7A
____Light off? See 7B

___7A: Faulty ECM terminal "B2" or bad ECM.
___7B: Repair open circuit 120 to ECM terminal "B2".

*** Oil pressure switch test: Our 2.8's have two oil pressure switches. One is for the
gauge panel to control our oil pressure light (or gauge). The other one will keep the fuel
pump running if the relay happens to die while you're driving. I assume the theory was that
if you pull out onto a highway and the relay dies, you don't get killed? Anyway...

OP1. Start the engine, get it up to normal operating temperature. If you can, verify that
______the oil pressure is normal. Disconnect fuel pump relay- the motor should keep running.

______Engine stops? Bad oil pressure switch.
______Engine keeps going? See "OP2"

OP2. Reconnect fuel pump relay. Ignition "off". Find the fuel pump test terminal on the
______ALDL (Assembly Line Diagnostic Link, the connector above the driver's feet you used
______to get the error code out), which is terminal "G" -- the bottom leftmost terminal.
______Probe that terminal "G" with a test light to ground.

______Light off? No trouble found! (Doubtful, if you got this far & nothing's wrong...)
______Light on? Bad oil pressure switch. Oh yeah this switch is screwed into your engine
_________________block, right above your oil filter, with an orange and a tan/white wiring
_________________harness on it.

Whew.

-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l)

 

Yup... Fuel pump cuts on. No codes (like I said, I have NO idea why I don't get any codes...) So, should I check the fuel filter?

Also, TomP, was it you that said a car running too lean or too rich could cause a burnt up catalytic converter and a severe lack of power?

(BTW, this is completely off topic, but I have to vent.... Some guy called to ask about buying my car... he asked my brother if it had a V8 in it, and he said, "Nope, he just swapped in a 3.4L V6." He said that a guy in the background said "F*ck that!" and started laughing. I told my brother that it was a good thing I was at work, or I'd have ripped this guy a new one. Screw the a$$hole V8 guys (not all of them are a$$holes... don't get me wrong. Some are very helpful, and I respect them.).... let them get 15mpg when gas is $3.00 a gallon...)

------------------
-------------------
-Steve-
--'87 Camaro LT --
Successful 2.8->3.4 swap...

 

The little ouburst was fully nessisary. Im a V8 and V6 guy and so i'll be laughing my head off and crying at the same time when gas is 3.00$ a gallon Although the american people wont stand for that BS. Our "vice ha" president **** , said we dont have enough oil refineries and thats why gas is so high, yea right.

Well back to subject I would pull the fuel filter and turn the key on to see if theres gas back there then work your way up. Its possible that the fuel line got pinched durring the swap. if there is a steady stream of fuel at the filter area then If you have a blow gun unscrew the main line from the injector rail and blow air through the line back to the filter area. This might free a contaminate that could be blocking fuel.
Good Luck!
SSC
HA Ha it edited DickChenys name HA.

[This message has been edited by SUPER-SPORT-CHEVY (edited May 21, 2001).]

 

I don't know if you checked this, but I ran into a similar problem when I swapped the 305 into my Jeep Wrangler. As it turned out, I had criss-crossed the fuel lines so I had the return line hooked up to where the feed line was supposed to go. I had fuel being fed to the wrong side of the line. Pump was working, but the motor wouldn't run.

Since you just swapped in a new motor, check that.

------------------
90 Wrangler with 305 TPI motor out of 92 Firebird Formula/ SM465 tranny/ Scout Dana44's on 35" BFG's

 

Running too rich will cause both of those problems. Running too lean will just cause a lack of power (and some valve damage, too). "Lean" is actually what makes more power... kind of backward, right?

Anyway when you run too rich, the gas fumes in the exhaust will attack the inside of the catalytic convertor. Cat's don't like gas! The catalyst will at best become "glazed" with gas (and not work), and, at worst, it'll be eaten through- and break up into little pieces, clogging the exhaust.

In fact I think I remember hearing that the "leaded" gasoline attacks the catalysts even more than normal gas does.


------------------
-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards
---Think your car could be pic of the week? Visit http://www.f-body.net for details!

 

Just to clear things up...The fuel pump is coming on correct...your hearing the pump right???

If not, I was wondering, if it might be just a fuse that has blown, or missing...I always look at the simplest solution, because I find more often then not they are overlooked...

If not, I think IROCwrangler is probably on the right track...

good luck