Weather is just now getting to where I can work on my car, a 1988 GTA with 5.7 and automatic (Mods include SLP 1-3/4" headers, bigger K & N filter, no cat, Edelbrock cat-back, 1.6 rockers and some of the other "free" mods). Mileage is 105,000 but engine rebuilt about 5,000 miles ago (6 years ago).

Car runs well on stock '165 computer with AKXY prom. Have run 14.0s at track (99.x mph) and have seen tick over 30 mpg when really watching mileage (average 25-27 mpg most times). Dynoed a couple years back at 224 rwhp (303 torque).

I was part of the Prominator group purchase and installed it this morning.

Before installing the Prominator, I cranked the car, checked the readouts through TunerPro RT (with Moates cable) and everything was normal.

After installation of hardware in one of the two '165 computers I have (both have been successfully tested in the car with the same prom), I downloaded the "88GTAL98stock" bin found on "diy-efi uploads" site. I used the 32B.xdf.

The bin loaded correctly (according to TunerPro).

I started the car and it would barely run. B-A-R-E-L-Y.

Tried a couple more slots (I got the 8-bin swith with the Prominator) with the same bin. No better but I didn't figure it would be any better.

I went ahead and uploaded the ARAP.bin, with 6E.xdf. The car would run marginally better than the "88GTAL98 stock bin" but still poured black smoke out the tailpipes.

I did a back-to-back test by reinserting the stock AKXY prom back into the '165 and the car ran as always. Fine. No problems. Reinserted the Prominator (I cut the case large enough to easily change out the hardware) and the car barely would run.

I re-read above stickies for other possible bins and found another ARAP bin and thought maybe the other had been corrupted, possibly in download. No better. Barely running.

Then went to broadcast codes section of efitune and downloaded AUJN6E and AUJM. I wondered if they were for Speed density because of being released in 1990 but the section was for 1989 cars. Car would not start at all on either bin.

I then put the AKXY prom back in and it is fine once again.

Now, please understand I'm really trying and some of this stuff (a lot, actually) easily goes over my 49-year old head.

I want to get the car running on a stock bin (preferably the AKXY) through the Prominator before I start modifying the bin(s). This is why I wanted the 8 selection switch so I may "flip back and forth" and always have a "stock" bin to go back to.

I believed the ARAP code would probably have some differences from the 1988 code (AKXY) but so much difference as to not run worth two-cents?

Please lead me in the right direction.

Thanks for your help and your patience.

jms

 

Why not start with the bin that is running good ("normal" as you put it) and tune from there? You mention that it runs on AKXY, and that you want to start off getting it to run with that bin. Sounds like you're already where you need to be. Now start modifying AKXY!

 

In my rush to get the original post on the subject, I left out that I DID download an AKXY file and it while did run, only just a little better than the ARAP. The car idled like it had a long duration cam in it and puffed black smoke. Would not rev smoothly and really started loading up about 2500-3000 rpm.

Sorry for leaving out that tidbit.

jms

 

Here's where I'm confused:

Does it run well or doesn't it with AKXY? If it does, then start with that. What PROM came stock for the vehicle? That's probably the best place to start.

 

I may be confusing some terminology. If so, I apologize, but please correct me if wrong.

The stock chip in the '165 computer (what I referred to as the PROM) has AKXY printed on it (along with 3287).

The chip (prom as I referred to it) is what is removed to install the Prominator.

The car ran fine with the stock chip but after removing it (the stock prom) and then installing the Prominator and loading a bin listed as AKXY from the diy site, it did not run near as smooth. Better than ARAP and much, much better than the bin listed as "88GTAL98stock".

It was as if the original AKXY chip in the stock prom(?) was okay but the Prominator using the AKXY bin was not.

If it matters (does it?), I had the AKXY bin selected in TunerPro and the 32B.xdf file selected also (in the xdf section). It loaded into the Prominator correctly, according to the little box at the bottom of the screen. As did all bins I tried (I selected the 6E xdf when loading ARAP and the others).

One thing I noticed, I had to go to the 6E datastream definition to read the aldl, rather than the 160 baud which I thought my '88 GTA would use. The 160 baud did nothing even after trying three or four times to get it to connect. The 6E did it the first time. Is this correct? Does this somehow affect the upload of the AKXY bin?

Could having the Moates aldl cable hooked up for monitoring purposes be affecting the uploads (corrupting the uploaded AKXY bin) and therefore the Prominator?

After my initial thread opener, I returned to the car and reinstalled the original "prom". Ran fine. Changed to my other '165 ecm with the original "prom" (just have one prom between the two ecm's) and it ran fine.

Installed the Prominator back in the ecm (#1) with the modified case (after, of course, removing the original "prom"), uploaded the AKXY bin again to switch setting '0' and '7' and cranked the car. Ran like I had 3 or 4 plug wires off and was dumping fuel down the intake. I have a 24'x30' garage and it ran me out of there in less than 30 seconds---even with the garage doors open!.

Checked for codes-nothing but code 12.

Removed that ecm and took the cover off ecm #2 and installed the Prominator in it and put it in place of ecm #1.

Same results with the AKXY bin loaded. It was getting late in the day and colder so I said enough and put the "prom" back in place of the Prominator on ecm #2 and cranked the car. Ran fine for 3-4 minutes then started loading up.

Checked for codes. Just code 12. I'm guessing I've fouled some plugs. Oh, well. The car is not my daily driver and I'll wait until it warms up outside once more before going any farther.

I've printed out the "Help" section of TunerPro and ring-bound it into a nice book. Read over it more than once.

So, in short, am I loading the bins correctly into the Prominator? I believe I am.

Why does my car run well on the stock AKXY "prom" (chip) but runs badly on an uploaded AKXY bin?

I've got to go now because I'm dizzy and have a headache from all the gas fumes. lol.

Thanks for the help.

jms

p.s.-Mangus, I use TunerPro on this desktop computer and also my laptop which I take to the car. WHEN I "donate" (and I will) for the program, will the key code work on both computers? Thanks for all your work-on behalf of the "dummies" of the world that don't have a clue.

 

Hmmm, you say you connected with the 6E.ads file, but you've loaded a $32 bin? Strange.

Something seems wrong. It sounds like theres a chance you're running in limp home mode. When you're running off of the Prominator, can you connect to the ALDL port? If not, then you're VERY likely running in limp home mode, which suggests a problem with the Prominator configuration, installation or bin.

Does the bin verify after you upload it to the Prominator? Can you try uploading it with the Prominator software instead of TunerPro and see if that yields better results?

Yes, you can use a single key to register on any and every computer that you personally own.

M

 

Like Mangus said, try the actual Prominator software first to make sure there's no discrepancies.

 

Other things I did today (it was cold and I made sure to ground myself before touching anything near the ecm's) include:

-After checking plug before starting the car first thing today, I checked for codes-NONE; Started car, ran fine as could be expected with me knowing I have fouled plugs.

-Tried loading AKXY bin through TunerPro using 160baud ads. As I was loading it, the fan would come on but would quickly go off when the bin loaded (BO and then BO1 would show in the box at the bottom of the screen). Car ran rough. The SES light stayed on the entire time but DID NOT flash. Checked for codes and got CODE 41.

-I tried loading again, noticed the box at bottom left of screen said "not emulating" and then I "initialized attached Hardware" per help section.

-The ALDL was still hooked up and I disconnected it and re-hit "initialize attached hardware" and box said "Connected Prominator Pro".

-Started car and it ran very roughly. While running I hit verify and it said verify failed. Tried several more times. No change. Even changed back to 6E ads. and no difference.

-At the end of the day, I removed the Prominator from the ecm and put in the chip and bolted everything back up. Cranked the car and it was much better than with Prominator hooked up. Checked for codes-NONE.

Now, my question---Does this sound like a software issue, a hardware issue, or a quite possibly a dummy issue (me)?

I am beginning to think it is a hardware issue. Am I on the right trail?

Thank you for your help.

jms

 

You are indeed on the right trail. If it won't verify with the Prominator software (or TunerPro), then something is certainly wrong with either the installation or the hardware.

Ken or Bill can probably help you further at this point.

Thanks for your patience in troubleshooting the issue!

 

The problem was solved with help from Bill Hitchcock (one of the Prominator guys).

Seems the '165 ecm MUST have the stock eprom connected to the Prominator for it to work.

That is why the '165 ecm guys have to buy the Moates adapter. lol

Anyway, a big T-H-A-N-K-S go out to Bill for all his patience and help.

AND once connected properly, the PROMINATOR has been working great.

jms