BizJetTech

iTrader: (3)

Hot off the press from Hagerty's -

Quoted from the newly released (01/2018) Camaro Value Guide

"Looking through a longer lens, the picture is similar to trends in the
broader market—and should be more encouraging to more owners.
While first- and second-generation Camaros have lost a little value since
2015 (between one and three percent), third-generation cars (built from
1982-1992) have increased in value by 24%. As car collectors have
become more skeptical of the market following years of enthusiastic
increases, they have focused their buying on more affordable, more
useable, and ultimately more conservative examples, which has
typically translated to newer cars. In the case of the Camaro, this has
certainly been true".

Bow_Tied

iTrader: (1)

Perhaps as the people move on from the original muscle car era, '64-72, the loyalty is limited to the cars from the buyers youth. Buyers in their mid 40s to mid 50s are coming to life stages were they may have some disposable income and 3rd gens were among the hot cars of their teenage years. That and speculators move on as the market flattens.

What would be smart now is to stating pristine 4th gens and sitting on them for 10 years, value wise. I considered it but just liked the 3rd gens better. Must be my age.

SirReveller

iTrader: (4)

Agreed- though prolly best to wait a lil while longer for 20yrs to clip in. Tho if I had the scratch (and free storage) I'd find something like this and put it away.
http://bit.ly/2eJ9y0p
With the power of the Internet I'm not sure how many random 3G owners would underprice ++low mileage clean cars today.

KMK454

Not surprising - since the mid-2000's, they've had nowhere to go but up.

What will be interesting is to see how far up they go, and will it be a rising tide that lifts all ships, or will only the best models see a rise?

Additionally, where does Hagerty get its data? Is it basing valuation on what owners request for an agreed upon value for insurance? Or are they crunching transaction data from actual sales?

BizJetTech

iTrader: (3)

Here is the entire report - see attachment

chazman

iTrader: (4)

I love cars. I love cars of the '60's and '70's. I don't love them enough to spend six figures on one, though. Nor do I love them enough to drop $150,000 on a top tier restoration. I suspect, there are plenty of people who look at that and then look at a mint, low mile 3rd gen or 5.0 Mustang and say, wait a minute, I can have one of those for less than a paint job?

Bow_Tied

iTrader: (1)

100% agree, I am kinda in that ball park. I have a Chevelle (first love). Looks good driving by, but needs to be restored. A quality resto could easily be $50K. Or for say 30-40% of that I can get a near mint lower mile 3rd gen like I lusted after in highschool, park the Chevelle and delay the resto until I have time to do it myself for less. Hell if I had more space I get another 3rd gen. If you can find an unmolested car I think they are great value despite having risen in price recently. mint 3rd gen for the "price of a paint job" nails it.

SirReveller

iTrader: (4)

Absolutely.

I'm having fun messing with a 110k mile car...an 11k mile car? I'd be studying chazman's and other purists' threads on pure time machine status and banning my kids from the garage. :P

Bob88GTA

iTrader: (2)

You nailed it Bow_Tied!!

I was fortunate (or not), to cruise the Chevy/Pontiac Dealerships in the 80's and pick up a new car that the "younger guys here" could only dream of what that was like. Now, being "older" and having that disposable income for hobbies like this, some can spend 20k on a pristine Z or TA and think nothing of it. Then call Hagerty and get it insured for an agreed value. That's where the data is coming from. All the Classic Insurance companies talk to each other.
Now, there's that guy that wants 15k for a 88 IROC, with 170k miles, with a "little rust" on it values his at that price because he read it in a magazine, or just got back from a 4 day stint at Barrett Jackson in Scottsdale.

BizJetTech

iTrader: (3)

Sorry, that is not true - the values in the guide are not based solely on what the insured is requesting for the agreed value - additionally, Hagerty will not insure the car for a customers requested stated value until after they review the car and agree on that value - read the full attachment

Bob88GTA

iTrader: (2)

Biz, you are correct. I did not state all the details. I had to show proof with pics and what THEY had for value for that specific year/model. I understand you can't just "state your value" and get it.
My bad.

vinny R

With Grundy ins. it is an agreed value that you throw out there and they charge accordingly. My Ins. is through them and I put the value in and they agreed. I only had to send one pic and that was it. No evaluation of the car.
I thought that was strange but for $185 a year and $9k agreed value I just signed on the dotted line.

zya5point0

iTrader: (4)

When I bought the IROC in 2010 I insured it for the 9k I paid for it. A couple years ago they asked me if i wanted to increase the value of it. I pay like 240 a year for 10k value, and they've never seen the car. I also agree tho with the comments about us older guys having disposable income for our "dream" cars.

Abubaca

iTrader: (3)

I have my 89 through hagerty, and they told me I could go up to $20k, assuming it was in good condition, which was confirmed when I sent them a few pics. I kept it at an agreed upon $15k.

scottmoyer

I must be one of the crazy ones. My car is insured through Grundy for $32k. It's been insured for over $20k for the past 15 years. Since I've been with Grundy as long as I have, I'm grandfathered into a program they used to offer that reduces the cost after 25 years old. I only pay $180/year for $32k coverage. The '82 Pace Car is insured at $22k.

Abubaca

iTrader: (3)

Mine has been at $15k for awhile. I'm getting ready to up my coverage. 383 is done, TKO is in, Holley HP is in, and paint and body are about done.

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

My experience is similar. I'm switching to American classic car (or something like that ) when I have the Camaro drivable again. They said they would insure it up to 20K without pictures but higher than that and they would need pictures to prove its value. It appears insurance concurs that these cars' values are on the way up.

To anybody contemplating the amount to insure their vehicle, go with as much as you can. You have to remember that these values are on the rise and they fluctuate based on the time of year and the region. If you had to travel to buy a replacement it would be nice to be able to have money for that.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

My car was recently appraised at a large amount. Been trying to get insured for over 6 months and it has proven quite difficult. There are two problems I'm encountering,

(1) Classic car insurers want garage queens that don't ever get driven. I'm being denied because I drive it in my real life. The problem isn't the miles, or my driving record, or even security when it is parked. The problem is I drive it in my normal life to and from work.

(2) The bigger problem has been the high appraised value. The insurance companies just can't seem to get on board with that idea because the comparable on e-bay are half that. Well you know, maybe those aren't actually comparable because my junk really is better than their junk. The underwriter that rejected it is probably the same guy that gave himself whiplash staring at my car as I drove by.

Most recently I have hooked up with a private insurance agent and he's showing more promise. Currently quoting with Auto Owners insurance but I don't know their reputation when it comes to claims coverage with Agreed Value policies.

Another thing I am sensitive to is buy-back after being totaled. I don't have a lot of money in the body and interior because I've kept the car in good condition all these years. The real money is in the mechanicals and I want the car back even if totaled. I am concerned that a junkyard will look at my car and say, "HOT DAMN!" and I end up in a bidding war to get my stuff back.

1MeanZ

iTrader: (9)

Hey Qwk, check out Rally Insurance Group, based out of Volo IL. I have all my F-cars with them on a policy through American Modern. They are cool with limited use to work on stated value policies. They've been easy to work with. A deer ran into the side of my GTA on the way to work a few years ago and they didn't bat an eye at fixing it. I chose the body shop and everything. Was overall a positive experience, well as positive as fixing the door on an original paint car can be...

BizJetTech

iTrader: (3)

Hagarty also allows for limited use (to work, etc) on a stated value policy

scottmoyer

The problem he has is that it's not limited use. It's his daily driver. The daily driver has more potential to be damaged. Collector car insurance companies will cover the car at full potential value, when it also has the full protection of a garage, no shopping carts or parking lot mishaps.

Grundy doesn't limit the car to being a garage queen. I can drive my car every single day, take a Hot Rod Power Tour road trip, etc, but I can't drive it to work or the grocery store every day, because that's where most minor damages occur. They are trying to protect their investment in your car. The expectation is that the car will never get damaged. That's why the policies are so cheap in comparison. Start driving them as daily drivers and there would be more claims and our costs would go up.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Not the Hagarty that I called. Unless you lie, which is what most people I know do.

Right. I put only 3000 miles on it in the last 2 years but they were all to and from work and shopping and going out and about.

BizJetTech

iTrader: (3)

I have a hagarty stated value policy (limited use) - it allows me to drive it to work a couple times a month - If you are driving it to work everyday it's obviously NOT limited use

Abubaca

iTrader: (3)

When I asked Hagarty about use, and mileage, and how much I could drive it, they told me that in my household, since I had only two licensed drivers, (my wife and I) we had to have two OTHER registered and insured vehicles, which of course we do. I specifically asked, could I park my daily driven '05 Trailblazer, with nicks and dings and all the utility I could need on a daily basis, and drive my Camaro to work everyday? She said "as long as the Trailblazer remains registered and insured, yes. -but you WON'T!

...and of course she's right. -at least in my case. I mean rules are rules. It doesn't say (to my knowledge) what you can and can NOT do, you just need to have another car registered and insured.

Abubaca

iTrader: (3)

...ok, so I got curious as to the specifics, so I picked up the phone and called.

Hagarty said that for cars over 20 years or so old...they look for around less than 10,000 miles a year. Maybe 7500 or so? I asked if there was a specific number, and they said no. He mentioned the other registered and insured vehicle that I mentioned earlier. I asked if there were any specific use restrictions, and he said towing and hauling, racing etc... I asked if I could drive it to work, he said of course! I said what if it was driven everyday to work, but I lived close and kept the miles down? He said if you told us it was driven everyday......*pause*.......we'd probably pass.

Long story short....yeah....if you're putting regular use, then yeah...many of them aren't going to be interested. Some places have hard rules, some have rough guidelines.

BizJetTech

iTrader: (3)

I've always been happy with Hagerty - good rates - easy to work with - nice website and online account access - and outstanding customer service - that's been my experience with them anyway - I'm sure others may not agree

MY87LT

iTrader: (2)

They are missing the RS and LT for 1987.

Arctic White 91 RS

I've had good experience with Hagerty. They covered my restored white RS for $25,000. I sent a lot of pictures of the resto-mod that Hawk's did on my 25 year daily driver

It's good to see Third Gen's get some positive press

Sold my 91 RS Camaro Convertible "Black Echo" with 118,000 miles for $14,000 a few weeks ago. That was well above Hagerty's value for a #2 condition Z28. It's amazing what an IROC hood, IROC rims, quality body work and and an outstanding repaint can do for a car's valve if it's a match to the potential buyers tastes. I just broke even for what I'd paid for the car and spent of paint and body work. In ten years well cared for and tastefully mod'd third Gen's will do well.

88IROCvertZ

iTrader: (1)

I used Hagerty. They did $20k value (way more than I paid for it) and I just had to send a few pictures. They did want to see pictures of the garage because if you don’t have an enclosed structure that locks up, it affects your premium.

I do think I could increase the value with the new paint job. I’m at $480/year.. They matched the full insurance on my other vehicles policies. I could probably get the premium down but I have full coverage and low deductibles which is nice.

They did want to know approximately how much the car would be driven and it’s use. I said it would be a weekend cruiser, cruise nights and car shows. I’ve only put 1400 miles in two years. That will start to go up!

The day I paid for the car and was working out the shipping I had it insured in about 5 min.. they were awesome to deal with at Hagerty.

STREETDEMON

Nice to see the third gens appreciating in value.

I'll never forget the first 1991 Z28 I saw...probably the reason I've owned one for almost 20 years.

I have both my Z28 and 1949 GMC insured through JC Taylor with no complaints. Agreed value on both. The GMC took a little more info than the Camaro to get it underwritten. It is, however, a full custom on an S10 frame though.

I've noticed at the car shows and cruise in's in the last 5-6 years, I'm getting a lot more traffic than I used to. Everyone loves the LS/T56 swap also.

My wife came from a Ford family, but I have yet to get her talked into a matching '91 notchback foxbody.

TransamGTA350

iTrader: (2)

This is a true statement. The 4 gen values are relatively low right now for a very nice, clean, low mileage original. I bought a 1999 Camaro SS with 12K miles 2 years ago, still with the original tires. Although I like the 3rd gens better overall, I bought this car to keep and enjoy for 5-10 years and sell it before it hits 20K miles, hopefully for more than I paid for it.

dmccain

iTrader: (2)

I like Grundy. $180 a year I'm insured for 10k. I don't drive it daily anyhow and its in a locked enclosed shop. I'm happy with their policy. I can pile up miles on it going to shows or whatever as long as I'm not driving to work, wal mart, etc..

1MeanZ

iTrader: (9)

Which is why I don't have a policy with them. The lady I talked to was super rude, and went into detail on how they had just denied a claim for a guy's Chevelle that got hammered in the Walmart parking lot. I use my cars as cars, so occasional work use and errand running is a must. If all I could do was drive to shows, I'd never be able to get them out....

BADNBLK

iTrader: (11)

Everyone that drives or races their cars take the time to Call Alex Larue of Larue Collector Car insurance
http://www.larueclassics.com/

They will save you hundreds... (depending on your value) over the typical Hagerty and Grundy companies when comparing apples to apples. I shopped for a while, and was turned on to them from racer/builder friend from CA told me about them. Asked a few FB friends to find that most of my friends with well known high dollar builds were using him... eye opener for sure!