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First off, if you don't have anything useful to contribute to this thread, don't post. Drifting is as much a part of the automotive world as drag racing, restoration/ show, and auto-x/ road racing, and it isn't going to go anywhere. Closed-mindedness doesn't make you a genius and isn't going to stop someone from doing something you don't like; it just wastes board space, muddles up threads and brings the image of our thirdgen community down.
So anyway, since there are very few drift builds in the thirdgen world and questions on the subject pop up from time to time, I figured one good thread would answer a lot of questions and act as a guide for anyone wanting to build a drift car or try it out. IN NO WAY IS STREET DRIFTING ADVISED OR CONDONED. DO SO AT THE RISK OF LEGAL ISSUES, LOSING YOUR LICENSE, YOUR PRIDE, YOUR CAR, YOURSELF, AND THOSE AROUND YOU.
Good areas to practice:
-Events (legal)
-Race tracks (as long as the administration is okay with it)
-Empty parking lots/ privately owned areas (with legal permission/ clearance, otherwise do so at your own risk)
Bad areas to practice:
-Anywhere you can hurt someone else or get in legal trouble (Empty streets with good visibility, plenty of runoff room, and no nearby businesses or residences are tempting... BUT STILL ILLEGAL. Do so at your own risk)
-Autocrosses (Unless the administration says it's okay. A lot of organizations will kick drifters out, especially if they aren't any good and take out half the course)
First things first: You need to decide what your goal is. Do you just want to slide around a little for fun and to become a better driver, or do you want to do tandem (wheel to wheel) competitions? Will you be drifting in canyons and touges, or empty parking lots and designated courses with ample runoff?
If you are building a purpose built drift car, it will be most economical and least wasteful to start off with a common base model. It is almost guaranteed that you will crash at some point if you are doing this often and in locations where you can actually hit something when you mess up, so don't waste a rare or nice car. If you kill a yellow Formula or a B4C Camaro, the thirdgen community probably won't be very kind to you. RS Camaros and Firebirds in various condition can be found pretty easily in most areas on craigslist for fairly cheap, so finding a shell or something with some mechanical problems or high mileage should be no problem. You'll be replacing most of the mechanical components anyway so as long as the body's structurally sound it'll be fine.
If you plan on doing this with a nice car or a car you care about, just make sure that you only do solo runs on courses with a lot of runoff space. Much like an autocross, the only thing as risk on such a course will be mechanical failures and your pride- both are easily fixed and your car will live on just fine. If you're being an idiot and doing this illegally, make sure you know the hazards in the area you're playing in and know your local laws- some areas crush cars for reckless driving.
Suspension/Chassis
Basically the same as setting up an auto-x/ road race car.
Springs:
Most of the people that have actually drifted thirdgens ran Ground Control weight jacks. They give you a whole variety of spring rates to choose from, and adjusting ride heights and corner weights is as easy as turning a wrench, much like with a coilover.
You want about a 5:1 ratio front to rear and stiff rates. Something like 850/175 or 1000/200, or something close to that range. You want some weight transfer, but if it's excessive the car will feel lethargic and be difficult to transition quickly.
Struts and Shocks
Something adjustable. Koni Yellows are the best quality and valving for high performance usage, and are well worth the money. KYB makes the AGX and Tokico makes Illumina's for slightly cheaper if you absolutely insist, but Koni's absolutely are worth every cent and worth saving for if money is tight.
Good shocks and struts will make the car much more stable, and adjustability allows you to fine-tune the feel of the car and change its cornering attitude.
Strut Mounts
Stock ones are crap. Something with a raised spherical bearing will eliminate the deflection present in the stock mounts and make steering inputs more crisp, as well as add a little bit of strut bump travel. The Spohn pieces are said to be the most safe/sound design.
Control Arms, A-arms, Panhard bar, and torque arm
The factory a-arms (in the front) are fairly stout, albeit heavy. Good ball joints and Global West del-alum bushings are all they really need. If yours have been through a few ball joint changes and no longer provide a press fit, or if you just have some extra cash, tubular a-arms are a good upgrade as they reduce partially unsprung weight and can be ordered with your choice of bushings and ball joints already installed.
Rear lower control arms/ panhard bar- Stock pieces are weak, cheap stamped metal and flex a lot. Most noticeable in the panhard bar due to its length. Aftermarket tubular replacements are relatively cheap and make a big difference in strength. ***Poly/ rod end or rod/ rod are the way to go, rubber flexes a lot and poly/poly causes bind which will cause snap oversteer and unpredictable handling) An adjustable panhard bar will allow you to re-center the rear end if you lower the car, and adjustable rear control arms will allow you to change the wheelbase.
Torque arm- Again, the stock one is cheap, flexy, stamped crap. A good tubular one will have more strength, and if it's adjustable you can mess with the pinion angle and wheelbase.
Suspension geometry and steering angle
The stock thirdgen suspension geometry is actually pretty good for an 80's McPherson strut car. The main issues with thirdgens as drift cars is the lack of steering angle, and that the roll center goes down far faster than the center of gravity when lowering (which is actually a problem for all strut suspensions, not thirdgen exclusive).
The cars with the 15" wheels and 2.5 turn lock to lock quick ratio steering box have the best factory steering box for drifting, as they provide quick, responsive steering over the slower boxes, and provide more angle than the boxes that came in cars with 16" wheels due to larger steering stops in the boxes in those cars. G-body Monte Carlo SS'es were available with a quick ratio box as well, which provides even more steering angle yet over the ones in thirdgens with performance suspension and 15" wheels. The 15" boxes will cause rubbing between the tire and the frame rail at full lock when running wide front tires, so hammering the affected area of the frame and/ or running wheel spacers is necessary when running the Monte Carlo box.
The proper cure for the roll center issue is a quality set of drop spindles, which maintain factory geometry while simply moving the wheel up, effectively lowering the car. The issue is that no one currently manufactures a sound design, so the next best thing is to run extended ball joints.
Extended ball joints move the entire spindle up from the a-arm the specified amount that the ball stud is extended, effectively dropping the car as well. Then the car can be set to the intended height with the weight jacks. Lowering the car with the weight jacks in conjunction with extended ball joints allows for the car to stay closer to the sweet spot in the camber curve and the roll center to remain slightly higher at a specified ride height than by simply lowering with the weight jacks on their own. Extended ball joints do cause bump steer issues since the tie rod moves in a different arc than the a-arm, but the amount is likely negligible on a low, stiffly suspended car.
Ideally, a custom set of drop spindles and extended a-arms could be fabricated to both drop the car and give more steering angle by a drift fabricator specializing in steering knuckle/ spindle modification. Yield strength varies from fabricator to fabricator, so choose who does yours carefully and run these on a street car at your own risk.
In the rear, you will want a set of lower control arm relocation brackets. When you lower the car you change the instant center of the rear which may cause wheel hop. The brackets (often referred to as LCARB's) restore factory geometry so the car will slide smoother. Ideally, you want the control arms set in the holes which will get it closest to level. If they are angled up to the axle from the body, you'll get wheel hop. If they're angled down to the axle from the body, you'll get roll oversteer as the wheel base will effectively shorten when the car rolls through a corner. Again, with stiff suspension this amount may even be negligible, but the theory is logical.
Chassis reinforcement
Outer perimeter subframe connectors (stitch welded to the pinch weld as well as to the front and rear subframes), a wonder bar, and a strut tower brace are musts. Thirdgens flex like all hell, and all of them (except showroom stock restorations) should have them, at minimum. On a dedicated drift car, a roll cage is a fantastic idea, and necessary for most tandem events and probably some solo events as well. Extra bracing around the steering box, transmission tunnel, and crossmember are a good idea. Body flex sucks.
Alignment -1* of camber, both sides. Possibly more if the car is slammed and not daily driven to help combat the issues with the camber curve going positive on super low cars.
~4.5* of caster, more if you're slammed for the reason above. More caster also aids in returning the wheel to center faster so you can let the wheel spin while you transition.
3/32 toe out, for more responsive turn in.
Center the rear axle by adjusting panhard bar.
Last edited by midnightfirews6; 10-02-2013 at 10:16 PM.
So now that we've got a car that's controllable, the next most important area is the drivetrain. Suspension and chassis prep is important to have a car that's easy to control- but you have to have a drivetrain that can take the abuse or you'll be stuck with an expensive, good handling yard ornament.
Rear end
By far the most important in getting the car sideways. If you have an open diff, unless you're really good you'll probably just end up smoking the rear tire and embarassing yourself. On a dedicated drift car, you can simply weld the spider gears in the diff if it's open, or install a mini-spool. For a street car, you probably don't want a welded diff or mini spool as they are very hard on tires and can make the car oversteer unwantedly in inclimate weather. A good limited slip is the way to go here. The stock units will last a while in the rain, but expect a few dry drift days before it goes open. The T2R and Eaton posi-trac are strong and popular replacements for open or worn out factory limited slips on street cars. A strong and light weight diff cover and regular diff fluid changes are a good idea too, since the rear axle is under a lot of stress.
Transmission
Automatics are no good. You can drift an automatic and get away with it for a while. You can also pull a Knight Rider Turbo Boost style jump off of a flatbed in it too... but that doesn't mean it's a good idea. (Edit: DON'T DO THIS. If you choose to, it's at your own risk. Also, if you do, try to get it on tape... but really don't do it.) People have successfully drifted automatics, but they offer less control over the car since the torque converter slips and doesn't allow as good of a connection between your right foot and the rear of the car. The stock 700R's are also known for overheating at track days and under long periods of abuse, so don't expect it to last very long if you make this a regular thing.
-T-5's are cheap and plentiful. For a dedicated drift car, this is the route to take. Buy a couple, learn to rebuild them, and then clutch kick away, my friend! These will also suffice in a street car, but if you're clutch kicking it on dry pavement a lot it probably won't like that and will need rebuilt after a while, which means no cruising for you.
-T-56's are strong but expensive and you may have to drive a little ways to find a good one. If you want a nice street car that can handle a lot of abuse, this is the way to go. A good one will set you back a pretty penny but it's hard to hurt one... and 6th gear will give you good gas mileage on the highway as an added bonus.
You'll want to use a good, comfortable shifter and a strong clutch that will stand up to the abuse... and change your clutch fluid regularly. Too many brands to list here and it's a matter of personal preference since everyone likes a different clutch or shifter feels, so do some research on these first.
Engine
Not as important as people make it out to be, actually. Drifting really took off in the 80's in the hills and mountains of Japan with little underpowered ae86's and RX7's with very few engine mods. Getting a car sideways with loads of power is easy, but learning to slide by weight transitions through shifting, steering line and braking will make you a better driver. That said, you do want enough power to stay sideways on a grippy course when it's dry out. With a good diff and suspension you can drift on smooth black asphalt all day in the rain, but for dry conditions you will need the aforementioned drivetrain mods and you may find yourself needing more power.
250-400 rwhp is a pretty good estimate. A mild smallblock with aluminum heads or an all-aluminum LSx is choice due to weight savings and the fact that they should put you right into that power range without breaking the bank. This is the suspension board and the amount of knowledge on budget building a good smallblock is vast, so I won't go into details here. Just remember that smooth mid- high range power is choice, and that weight is very very critical- so big blocks are right out.
Brakes
Not all that important to run anything fancy, since the car is scrubbing off speed while it slides sideways. A hydraulic hand brake is a good idea, since the stock emergency brake system is crap and generally doesn't even do a good job of holding the car in place. E-brake initiations and transitions are a good beginner technique, and even the pros use the e-brake to help make the car do what they want it to do, so while not entirely necessary, a hydraulic e-brake could be a game changer by helping you modify your technique.
WEIGHT
Weight is the enemy in drifting. In a purpose built drift car, chuck everything that doesn't make it run, drive, or look good. Smog, A/C, carpet, rear seats, interior trim, washer fluid, heater, impact bars (if you're caged), etc. Balance is also EXTREMELY important, so replacing engine accessories with lightweight plastic or aluminum, a lightweight hood, and relocating the battery behind the seat will help in this respect.
For a street car, you can do this without trashing your nice car by installing lightweight padding under your carpet in place of the heavy jute, moving to lightweight engine accessories, replacing heavy factory parts with lightweight aftermarket replicas, installing an aluminum or carbon driveshaft, installing lightweight wheels and tires, and removing the spare and jack.
Weight is inertia- the heavier the car, the harder it will be to get it to turn in, and the harder it will be to make it stop. A good drift car will transition quickly and gracefully, and be easy to control.
Tires For beginners, free tires are good tires. Get a spare set of wheels and a friend with a tire mounter. Make sure both rear tires are the same size if you are running a limited slip/posi, otherwise it will wear it out. When you are actually competing at events (and placing halfway well) you might consider investing in some Falkens or Kendas for consistency during competition, otherwise it's a waste of money. If you have a street car you'll obviously want a good set of wheels and tires for the street so you don't get tickets or hydroplane.
Anyways, I think this covers most of the basics. Most of this was written based on the assumption that the reader has a little background knowledge in suspension geometry and the thirdgen chassis in general, if something's not clear just let me know! Once you have your car to where it's reliable and does what you want how you want it to do it, it just comes down to seat time, seat time, seat time.
And if you do something cool, get it on tape! There are a million videos of people spinning out and doing donuts claiming to be drifting. Everyone wants to see the real deal, and other than about 5 people on this board, there aren't a lot of thirdgens/ owners out there getting exposure.
Last edited by midnightfirews6; 10-02-2013 at 10:18 PM.
There is a lot of good information in this thread. Thanks for sharing. Personally, not into the drifting world but it is growing steadily. This will serve those who want to pursue this option well.
That said, I have a suggestion. While your first post is not entirely useless, it is extremely opinionistic and probably not the best way to attract the constructive support your looking for out of this thread. Just my
Good writeup! I think this is a good base of info for drifting.. Might be cool to post up links to other drifting threads where they custom fabbed stuff.
soultron: 305/T5 Trans Am with suspension mods
Couldn't find a build thread, but to my knowledge he just had the usual suspension stuff. If you feel like creeping through his old posts you can search, I don't think he posts anymore.
crazyhawaiian and REVLIMIT were the authorities on the subject and probably pioneered, several years ago before drifting really got mainstream. There are tons of helpful suspension and technique posts from them around the site you can find by searching their names. I couldn't find many pictures since their domestic drifting website (powerslideways.com) that they also hosted their photos on is now unfortunately defunct. Pretty sure they got out of it long ago and don't get on here anymore.
CrazyHawaiian: the guru. Too many posts for any mortal person to sort through, dude knows his stuff. Shame he got out of the whole gig...
He had a green budget built Camaro and a sunset orange metallic Camaro. Maybe more...? Good luck finding good pics and sorting through everything though...
Green car build thread... TONS of good info: https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/auto...reen-89-a.html
Orange car (not sure if he drifted this one, but properly set up nonetheless) https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/auto...ns-91-a-2.html
Video featuring crazyhawaiian and revlimit's cars:
And some random YouTube heroes (actually drifting, not just some meathead spinning donuts in front of the local shopping center and tagging it under drifting!), if anyone has names or build threads to link to them post up!
Red Trans Am in Europe:
If you grew up with snow or spend time off road drifting is nothing new. It can be fun to get sideways. Especially if you meant to do it! On a road course or auto-x every effort is usually made NOT to drift. And definitely never when drag racing. Anything you can do in a car is fun if it's not terrifying.
He's got a lot of AWESOME videos on his own channel. I always loved his car.
I also have two pictures of Crazy Hawaiian's car. Or at least, one of their groups cars. If I remember right, that green one is CrazyH's car, the orange one is affiliated but I dont know the details.
Last edited by InfernalVortex; 11-29-2013 at 10:57 AM.
Hi guys, I guess ill bring this post back from the dead. I am in the porcess of building a new chassis to compete in pro-am series in 2017, but I have been drifing a 91 Z28 since early 2013. I will post some pics/videos and some car details here as i get time at work
Hi guys, I guess ill bring this post back from the dead. I am in the porcess of building a new chassis to compete in pro-am series in 2017, but I have been drifing a 91 Z28 since early 2013. I will post some pics/videos and some car details here as i get time at work
Beaverun 2017? Just realized we could meet for a Drift event next year. I can't miss any, anymore. I won't be taking the Camaro out (long ways away from Drifting reliably) but I definitely want to get out to the track for at least some ride-alongs. Will be nice to take Roxie out for a cruise to the track. So far this is the closest thing I have done to making my car Drift-like ;P ;P but the main goal is a fully capable Daily Driven Track Drifter. https://goo.gl/photos/KGv7mTBeBp1Auwif7
Beaverun 2017? Just realized we could meet for a Drift event next year. I can't miss any, anymore. I won't be taking the Camaro out (long ways away from Drifting reliably) but I definitely want to get out to the track for at least some ride-alongs. Will be nice to take Roxie out for a cruise to the track. So far this is the closest thing I have done to making my car Drift-like ;P ;P but the main goal is a fully capable Daily Driven Track Drifter. https://goo.gl/photos/KGv7mTBeBp1Auwif7
yes, ive been drifting beaver run since 2013, and im frequently at lake county speedway in painesville, oh and midvale, oh. The car will look a little different i am building a new shell at the moment
I've been away from the forums for a while. I bought a crappy ex-road race S14 240SX from a friend a few years ago that ended up being too rusty to continue racing, so I did a few drift events with that. I sold it last year and bought a 2001 Bullitt Mustang for a practice car (I wanted another third gen, but they're hard to come by in good shape these days), but covid kept much of that from happening. I hope to get out there a lot and hit at least one event with the T/A this year though! If I do, I'll make sure to get plenty of video and hopefully someone will get some good photos.
Here's a crappy video I threw together a couple years ago practicing on an offramp in the T/A:
Also, for more third gen f-body drifting goodness, check out "corgisandcorollas" and "coltrain_" on Instagram. Very rad dudes who drift much better than I.
I also drift a third gen. Its a turbo LS drift car I built a few years back. I designed and made my own angle kit with custom control arms, and mustang spindles that have adapters for angle from aftermarket.
I have a few videos of it online, but majority is on my instagram @thedriftmu11et. Not sure why ****** is censored, so there's 1's instead of L.
10-02-2013, 09:39 PM
