Im having problems starting my car on cold mornings.It takes quite a few tries before I get the car to start and then stall.after about 10-20 tries my battery was drained,gave it a boost,and almost got it running and it stalled once more.Then when ever I try to start it I hear the click of my starter but the engine does not turn over at all.My gauges all work fine and no warnings light came on the night before when I parked it.A mechanic friend of mine said that the motor is probably seized from no oil but I had put oil in a day ago what can this be,all suggestions are welcome and appreciated.

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305 LG4 all stock......for now.

 

Try turning it over by hand, ie: with a breaker bar and a 5/8 socket on the balancer bolt.

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91 Z28
Come see The Vicious...

[This message has been edited by ViciousZ (edited November 20, 2001).]

 

breaker bar? that'll be easy(sarcasm ending now) Dose is really strain when it starts?

first thing i would check would be fuel delivery. Fuel Pump, Fuel Filter, Injectors, start their,

bowtieguy01

 

He was saying to try to turn the motor over to see if it was seized, not start it. No need for sarcasm, it really would be easy. I wouldn't think it seized from lack of oil, since oil pumps when you crank the engine.. but I really don't know the exact circumstances. If the engine turns over by hand check the starter connections and the solenoid. Otherwise, good luck.

 

I already tried to do it by hand, and nothing budged.Im sure my fuel system is working cause my carb is now flooded , checked the oil and its all gone but no leak? Go figure.Im thinking of what might be the easiest way to unseize the motor and find out where the hell my oil went to,my oil filter is fairly new aswell.And thanks for the fast response guys.

 

Guess I better start saying my prayers and cover her up, doesnt look like its going anywhere soon.Any other suggestions to take into consideration?

 

Can you give a little more information?
Has this car been driven regularly?
Has it just been taken out of storage?
If you've been using the car regularly, have you noticed any problems(accelerating, stuttering, idleing, etc.)?
When she does crank over(with a charged battery) does the starter sound healthy or weak?
How old are the fuel filter(as mentioned above), spark plugs, and plug wires?
How many miles are on the car?

Any info you can share should help to narrow down the possibilities.

 

Well I just bought the car last week and as far as I know its been sitting for about 2 yrs.I had the spark plugs changed before i even took it home.As for idle when cold its idles kinda rough oon the first start then rev or 2 gets its going just fine.The mileage on this motor is about done for at 240,000 and change lol,and was daily driven.My starter sounds fine no probs,it was my first guess for a problem this morning but I checked it.I have some hesitation on acceleration if the car isnt warmed up long enough and the fuel filter I havent looked at yet,but Im gueesing it is old.I plan on chaning the oil,tranny,coolant,brake fluids.Also get new air filter and fuel filter.Hope that helps,its as much info I have at the moment cause the car is still new to me,first carb car.

 

I was wondering also is it possible to take my tranny off,put some oil back in the car and try to turn it over by hand and free it up?

 

yea it will work But you can just put the tranny in park(auto) or netural(manual) and get the same result without taking the tranny off. Take the plugs out and it will make turning the engine much easyer.

[This message has been edited by poncho9789 (edited November 21, 2001).]

 

Don't you guys suppose the starter has a lot more torque for turning over an engine than doing it by hand? What I'm saying is that if you were gonna try to free it up, you might have better luck to use the starter than by doing it by hand (that's assuming your starter is good). Also I'm not sure siezed engines are in the habit of unsiezing. Taking out the spark plugs will help. Taking out the tranny won't make much difference, as previously mentioned.

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91 Z28
Come see The Vicious...

 

On the show "motorweek", the mechanic did a segment on unseizing a motor. If I remember correctly, he took out all of the spark plugs, and disconnected the ignition system. I'm not too sure how you'd do it on an HEI in the cap coil. Make sure that the wires are out of the way(label the wires as to what cyclinder they each go to). I'd place the spark plugs in order so that you can put them back in their original cylinders. He then sprayed a little rust remover/penetrant(like WD40) into each spark plug hole. Let it sit for a while. Then crank over the engine via the starter. He then put a SMALL amount of oil in the spark plug holes; waited a while and then cranked the engine over again. He then put the spark plugs back in, connected the plug wires, and re-connected the ignition system. Then he started up the car. You may get some smoke(possible fire) under the hood from the oil and rust penetrant that splashes onto the exhaust manifolds(when cranking the engine over).

I may have left out some details of the operation, or correct order of procedures; so use this info at your own risk. SAFETY FIRST! Have a fire extinguisher handy. It would probably be easier to get at the rear spark plugs with the front end of the car on jack stands or on ramps(chock the rear wheels). When working on the ignition system, remember there's a lot of voltage there. Again use common sense. I'm not trying to speak down to you; forgive me if it comes out that way. It's hard to tell on the computer one person's automotive experience.

With the car sitting for a couple of years, the inside of the cylinders are probably pretty rusty; that is of course if the previous owner didn't use desicant plugs. He also may not have used some sort of fuel stabilizer if he left fuel in the tank. If the gas is old(and there's quite a bit in the tank), I would siphon(with an appropriate pump) it out and put fresh gas in. I would change out that oil immediately, since old oil is very caustic/corrosive and could eat away bearings.

If you had put oil in and it dissapeared; my question to you is "Did you notice any smoke coming out of the exhaust when you did drive it? If so, one or more of your spark plugs could be fouled with oil; and that may be why the car doesn't want to start. Oil in the exhaust could also clog up your catalytic converter(i.e. too much backpressure that is preventing the engine from turning over).

I'd also check the condition of all the vaccuum lines on the engine and make sure everything is where it is supposed to be.

By the way, I'm in no way an expert mechanic. If any of the my theories, procedures listed, etc. are incorrect please by all means correct me
Hope I have been of some help.

[This message has been edited by coach (edited November 21, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by coach (edited November 22, 2001).]

 

Sounds to me like you have a dead battery, and there's probably nothing at all wrong with the motor. I think your "mechanic friend" is yanking on your chain.

Have you tried a new battery? Checked the alternator?

Start with the simple and obvious things first before getting all worked up over a bunch of complicated improbable theories.

"The simplest explanation that fits all the facts is usually the right one."
— Occam, ancient Greek philosopher (from the days even before fuel injection)

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"So many Mustangs, so little time..."
ICON Motorsports

 

I do agree with you RB in checking out the simple things firsts(fluids, connections, filters, etc). Batteries don't like to sit around unused. The terminals could be corroded. But he says that the starter sounds fine. Hmmmm.

 

Actually he said he tried to turn it over by hand and couln't. That pretty much rules out all possibilities other than siezed engine. Even I can turn over a brand new engine by hand, with spark plugs and everything, and I'm a bit of a wuss in the muscles department.

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91 Z28
Come see The Vicious...

 

If I was to long-distance diagnose the situation without seeing it, I'd guess that the carb's choke is misadjusted or not working, such that it's not getting enough gas to run when it's really cold; or that the choke pull-off diaphragm isn't working, and causing it to run way too rich and flood. More likely the former.

Then, the battery is run down to the point that it can't turn the motor over any more. If this has happened too many times the battery itself may be toasted, in which case even jumping it off might not provide enough oomph to start the car.

Motors don't generally seize overnight, and then fail to start on cold mornings. Since this is a repetitive thing by the description, anf the motor worked fine when it was last turned off, I doubt that it has anything to do with low oil damage or a seized motor or any of that.

I'd attack the car by installing a known good battery known to be fully charged. I'd try pouring an ounce or 2 of gas into the carb and blocking the choke open, then go from there. Either it will start or it won't (I'd bet it will) and it will then either run right, or way lean, or way rich. If it runs right, close the hood and go on about your life. If it's lean or rich, or if the choke simply doesn't work right by either not closing or by not cracking open a little when the engine fires up, fix the carb.

See the quote from Occam.

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"So many Mustangs, so little time..."
ICON Motorsports

 

Well after school today I went to see the car and my mechanic and he told me that the carb was prbably flooded.And I do specifically remember boosting the battery for more then a good 15 mins!!! and still not a thing happened so I will change that too.I told the mechanic I will think about my options and check the basics and work through the list of possibilities ie starter,alternator, battery and especialy the carb choke.My experience with diagnosing problems is just beginnig as I am apprentice and learning from all of this in school.I remember the mechanic saying something about the oil and gas somehow mixing up together and locked it up....how I dont know but right now I plan on moving my car away from this guy and bring it to the shop that sold it to me.The previous owner and manager of the shop I bought it from says my mechanic is talking pure bullsh!t .....excuse my french and that if the car ran fine the night before,no warning lights,and the fact that i did put oil in sunday night,what could cause the engine to seize,his guess also was the battery which is now drained and gone to scrap yard heaven never to turn the start over,or the starter is gone.The way the first mechanic explained possible causes dont make sense,When I turn they key to ignition i hear the click of the starter and I can see the dome and dash lights all of a sudden almost die.If i turn it back to accessory or bulb test,battery voltage reads fine to start,all bulbs work fine,try to start it and bam....voltage drops like a bitch staright to zero and if I hold it down i can hear the starter whining so I know it works,might need to replace it after this though.

 

I'd say you should go out and get yourself a new battery from the parts store, should be like $50-60, install it and then hook up another running car to it as if you were jumping a dead battery so the new battery wont get drained/damaged. Then if its cranking well, and still wont start, try some ether based starting fluid. Open the choke and throttle plates, and give a quick shot (1-2 sec) into each primary. If its gonna start at all it should at least fire on the starting fluid, If it will run for a few secons and then quits, you need to look closer at the carb.

[This message has been edited by cfabe (edited November 21, 2001).]