Just curious. What are my options on clutch linkage? I have heard some horror stories about using a PP with more the 2800lbs of pressure will kill my hydraulics. I will probably need in the range of 3000-3500lbs for the 383. I heard that the 82's had linkage like the 1st and 2nd gen cars, but it was crap. Are there any cable options out there? I scored an M-20 Muncie today(barn find), so the Saginaw goes back under the bench. Let me know if you guys have any ideas. The Centerforce PP is always an option....

Billy

 

Hmmm, the only cars I know of that used a cable setup were the mustangs with the T-5's, and I've heard that they have a whole boatload of bad issues as well. If you're on a budget, I'd recommend using the early thirdgen mechanical linkage. If you have money to burn, you could always go with a Mcleod hydraulic throwout bearing setup, or they also offer a bulletproof aluminum adjustable master cylinder and slave setup with a braided steel line. I run a M20 in my 69 Camaro with mechanical linkage, and as long as it's adjusted properly, it never gives me any trouble. I've got the early style thirdgen linkage setup sitting on a shelf in the garage and it doesn't appear to be any weaker or much different than the first and second gen styles.

 

Thanks, I will look in the yards for one of those cars and see if I can score a linkage set-up. I am most definitely on a budget, so as cool as the Mcloed set-up would be, it's out of my price range. How much did you pay for your linkage set-up?

 

The mechanical system has no advantage over the hydraulic one. For example, the hydraulic system doesn't move the engine back and forth on its mounts (or suffer from sensitivity to that motion), like the mech one does.

I'd suggest leaving it alone, and see how it does. All sorts of people with newer cars have all sorts of stiff clutches in them; LT1 & LS1 cars for example. No problems there that I know of. Shouldn't be any problems with the same thing just wrapped in a different year of sheet metal.

 

Yeah, I agree with sofa that you might want to try sticking with the hydraulic linkage first and see how it does. I know of guys running Spec stage 3 clutches or better with the hydraulic linkage, and it seems to work fine. A Spec stage 3 is capable of holding up to 600 horsepower, and it's a diaphragm style pressure plate so it's still not too stiff. I got lucky on the mechanical linkage and managed to get it at a junkyard for dirt cheap. Most yards don't realize how hard it is to find the mechanical linkage, so they really don't know what it's worth. I'm going to run the hydraulic style with mine along with the Centerforce DF. I just grabbed the mechanical setup to have as a backup system. I also have the Spec stage 3 that I picked up from a guy a while back, but I'm going to see if the Centerforce is adequate before running the Spec unit.

 

Just my 2c.

Having an 82 Z with the stock mechanical linkage. It is crap. I hate to say that but mine broke three times with a mild HD pressure plate in under 12k miles. Each time I replaced it with new GM parts and they failed in the same spot. one of the main reasons that GM changed the desigm was that they linkage kept failing.

I have the McLeod hyd TO bearing and it is the last issue I have ever had with my clucth. In my opinion never use a stock 3rd Gen mechanical linkage. HYD either stock or aftermarket is the way to go. The stock hyd stuff will work just fine for what your looking to do.

 

That's good to know. It's always good to have someone chime in that's actually used a certain setup before. I guess the thirdgen mechanical linkage really is crappy according to the last post. In that case I'll probably throw mine on ebay since it's considered "rare" and see if I can get a few bucks out of it. Thanks for the heads up Comp788.

 

I'm just waiting to get rid of my mechanical linkage, I can feel the bind when under power, it gets harder to shift!

I need to look at my haynes and figure out how a hydraulic linkage even works before I try to swap one in. Anyone know the limitations? Can I use the hydraulic linkage from a V6 thirdgen?

 

After driving 4-speeds for years on end, when hydraulics came out in these cars in 84 and I test-drove one, I COULD NOT WAIT to swap my 83 over to them. I finally found a smashed car in the boneyard in around 86 or 87, and did it.

I was AMAZED. All of the crappy problems that I had dealt with in all those stick-shift cars that I'd had over the years, in everything from a 60 Chevy to trucks to a PILE of big-block Chevelles to the car I traded in on this 83 (a 79 Z28), DISAPPEARED as if by magic.

I've never experienced any "limitations", myself; but I've never had much over 400 ft-lbs to the wheels in this car. It's pretty lame now, it has a 305 (for passing emissions) that only does about 237 HP and 263 ft-lbs to the wheels.

I have no clue whatsoever about the 6-cyl hydraulics. I've never so much as TOUCHED a 6-cyl in one of these cars, in fact I've only seen a small handful of those, and that mostly in junkyards. As cheap as new ones are from GM though, whole pre-bled sets ready to install, I can't see alot of point in getting all wound up over a bunch of used 6-cyl unknowns.

 

The 6 cylinder hydraulic linkage will absolutely work with a V8 car. It's identical. The only two things that are different on the 6 cylinder ones is the bellhousing and the release fork. I've got about 4 sets of the hydraulics, and most of them are from 6 cylinder cars, and they're no different from the V8 ones I have. So as long as you have the V8 bellhousing and release fork, you'll be all set no matter which car you pull the hydraulics from. Also make note that the hydraulic style release fork is different from the mechanical one. The Gearbox is a seller on ebay and they have brand new V8 hydraulic release forks available for about $35 plus shipping.

 

haha, "about 237HP and 263 torque to the wheels" eh? Pretty specific guess eh? What heads and cam are on that 305, if I may ask? I'm always curious about your setup sofakingdom.


ok, so to clarify, i'd need:

-re-use my existing T10 bellhousing, or...?
-hydraulic style release fork... Application doesn't matter? any 3rd gen standard tranny?
-hydraulic TO bearing
-some lines ? is there a master cylinder or something, a booster? A different pedal?

"cheap new ones from GM", are you referring to a kit, or a specific part? I'm just not sure what all is necessary here...

I know how my mechanical setup works, with my Z-bar and all that jazz, but I can't even picture how a hydraulic setup works so i'm a little lost.

Thanks for the help!

 

You'll need the hydraulic style V8 bellhousing too since it has the provision cast into it for mounting the slave cylinder, and the release fork is V8 specific, but it's the same one from 84-92. Just remember the 6 cylinder release fork and bellhousing are definitely different. Here's a list of everything you'll need in addition to the two parts mentioned above: 1. Hydraulic style pedal assembly. 2. Clutch master cylinder, slave cylinder, and the line that goes between them. 3. Clutch fluid reservoir w/bracket that attaches it to one of the brake master cylinder bolts and the hose that runs down to the clutch master cylinder. 4. U-bolt that attaches clutch master cylinder to firewall. 5. Slave cylinder heat shield (this piece has two nuts welded to it for the slave cylinder attaching bolts). If you can't find the shield, you can just use standard nuts and bolts to attach the slave to the bellhousing. That should be it. The "kit" that sofa was referring to only includes the clutch slave cylinder, master cylinder, and line. You'd still need to round up the pedals, bellhousing, u-bolt, slave shield, etc. Here's some part #'s: Bellhousing-14075723; Release Fork-14075725; Slave Cylinder Shield-14075712; Slave Shield/Cylinder Bolts (2 req.)-14086847;Clutch Master Cylinder U-Bolt-14076942. If you want to buy the brand new 4th gen style "kit" with the 2 cylinders, reservoir and lines, the part# has been posted in other threads here quite a few times.

 

Hmm, interesting. Alright, thanks!

3rd gen V8's with standard trannys are rare like hens teeth in wrecking yards here. Looks like the release fork is available on ebay from that guy, and probably other sources, is the bellhousing specific to a 3rd gen? I think it is, but I wanted to be sure...

I think I can rob the rest of those parts from V6 fbodies with standards in the yards, those come up every once in a blue moon. I'll look into pricing out that kit, I think this'll be a nice spring mod for me.

 

Here's some pics for ya...

 

Couple more....Btw, don't ask me why the hydraulic line is a red/clear color on this one. Every other one I've ever grabbed from the junkyard has a black plastic line. Maybe they bought a replacement line for it at one point in time? Who knows. Came off an 84 6 cyl. Camaro w/T5.

 

Yeah the bellhousing has to come from a thirdgen. Any 84-92 Camaro or Firebird with a V8/T5 will be correct. As rare as these setups are to find in junkyards, I basically stole one a couple of weeks ago considering what I paid for it! A buddy of mine told me about an 83 305/T5 car that just showed up at the yard, so I headed out there first thing the next morning. I was expecting to find a well-worn NWC T5 in it, and was astounded when it ended up having a freshly rebuilt 89 WC T5 trans in it! It looked like a project car that they just gave up on and decided to send to the yard. There was still assembly grease in the shifter pivot cup, the shifter looked new and still had a part# sticker on it, and the bellhousing, crossmember, and other misc. bolts were just snugged up about finger tight! At first I thought they had mistakenly put ATF in a NWC trans when I removed the shifter until I started looking closer at everything. The number on the trans tag is 1352-195 (89 Iroc/TransAm V8 WC T5 w/.73 5th). I managed to get the trans, bellhousing, clutch, flywheel, shifter, pedals, shift plate/boot, and clutch linkage for the unbelieveable price of $130!!! The gods of good fortune were definitely smiling on me that day! I'm buying my buddy a nice steak dinner to repay him for tipping me off to this one! Sorry to get so far off the original topic, but I just had to share this find with you guys!

 

My set-up was a homemade mechanical with a standard (trans up-right) Mcleod sfi bellhousing. HD z-bar and solid 3/8 linkage rods with an adjustable end at the fork, all built by me. I love it, and the stock stuff wouldn't touch my 3600lb borg&beck plate. I only use the clutch to launch, so I don't have any engine/trans movement or other shift issues. Personally I like to be able to feel the clutch.

I do understand the positives to a hyd clutch, and I'm sure the stock mechanical has some large down falls in comparison to my stuff.

...just my

 

I dont understang how a pressure plate over 3500lbs would cause the hyd. system to fail? I've got the spec stage V (5) pressure plate that I think is like 4800lbs and I havent had any problems with the hyd. system?


Thanks,

 

I agree. But I also gotta ask, why do you think you need a 3500# pressure plate? How much power are you talking about with your 383?

My 400 is making (best guess) about 450 ft-lbs, and I'm have zero problems with slippage with the stock-style pressure plate. (Mine's a Luk, not factory original, but it's still the factory pressure specs.)

 

No 383 here, just a 355. My vert weighs in at 4001 lbs w/o me in it, that being the larger reason for that much pressure plate. Actually it's a little over 3600 with the springs I have in it right now. I've not dyno'ed it, but it has run 11.72 all motor with a 1.66 60ft on 17" wheels. According to the 1/4 calculators, its making somewhere between 500-525hp.

 

Yea i also need a high lbs pressure plate. I was running a centerforce disk and pressure plate and toasted the disk up very quickly.

Thats why I'm using a nice aftermarket clutch disk with a 4800lbs pressure plate.

Also the system will leak before it goes south and explodes.