zfever

I am having a problem with my stereo system, i dont know if any of you can help, but any imput would be nice. My problem is this, i have an 86 corvette with the factory bose system in it, which simply has a tape deck that no longer plays. I would like to upgrade it to a cd player, but because it is a bose system, there are obvious extra costs. I dont really want to install it myself, mainly because i will set the car on fire if i do, and the install shops i have taken it to give me completely different answers. One shop has told me that the bose system amplifies each speaker independently, and these amplifiers are located in the doors, so it would be necessary to rewire the entire audio system. They also say that i would be best to use an alpine or pioneer deck if i want to keep the bose speakers, because the ohms are more likely 1 or 2 instead of 4. They have also told me that all of this would require about 4 hours of labour, plus parts, so this would end up costing me 600 dollars plus tax.
Now, the other install shop i went to told me that they dont need to rewire the whole car, and that they can install a bypass, and that i can really run any deck i want. They also claim that there is only one amp running the speakers, and labour would be one hour tops. their way would cost me closer to 300 dollars.
Now, the problem is that one shop seems to be ripping me off, and the other shop im not so sure that they know what they are talking about. Does this bypass really work? i have read from previous posts that the bose systems do amplify each speaker on an independent amplifier, so that is why i am leary.

MasterEvilAce

Each speaker is amplified by its own amplifier, yes.

As far as i know, you can use ANY cdplayer/deck/etc. and just buy this "Bose adapter" or "Bose Interface" or something that hooks between the headset and amps/speakers.. or something

Not really sure how it works, but that's what i was told

and as far as i know this interface thing is around 60$.

1988irocz350

Anybody happen to know who sells this bose adapter for our cars? Also, does this adapter have a plug for the remote to turn on the amps for the speakers?

John in RI

iTrader: (167)

Peripheral Electronics makes the interface and you can probably find one at the crutchfield website.

There is no "relay" for the amps,......... that's what the factory BOSE relay is for. (it's wired directly into the BOSE speaker wiring harness.) All you need to do to install this interface is to wire in in between your factory wiring harness and the replacement deck.

I used the interface to install BOSE into my 84 Berlinetta AND into my 95 Z28 with fantastic results. The interface has independant (4-channel) "level" adjustments that allow a non-bose head unit to push a lot more power thru the BOSE speaker system than the factory set-up. I have 8 BOSE speakers running off a single interface in my Berlinetta And you would not believe how good the set-up sounds !!! ( All 8 AMPS are all running from the same factory BOSE Relay and are NOT wired into the Interface in any way)

Another advantage of installing an aftermarket head unit ( or other GM head unit ) is that you can take advantage of an Equalizer if the deck is equiped with one. That's something the factory BOSE systems do NOT have,...........

MasterEvilAce

Interesting.. With 2 bose (in the rear, 1987 IROC) does it sound good with an aftermarket player? I hooked one up but then it got fried a little after that (without interface) if you have only 2.. can they get pretty loud before distorting? and can they get loud enough that you can hear them clearly with the windows down & air rushing past you? I was wondering if at one point in time I should do dash speakers + 6x9's or keep just the two bose, if it sounds good enough (i'm not looking for top-notch sound.. just something that will be pleasing to hear)

John in RI

iTrader: (167)

I can't see why not ---

my car is VERY loud and I can turn the music up loud enough so that I can't hear the car while driving. Like I said - my car is VERY loud.

You should also have speakers in your kick panels if you have the BOSE set-up in your car,....... or did you remove those 2 ?? I'm just curious as to why you currently have only the rear shelf speakers.

When I set the interface "levels" I was able to set all 4 chanels almost all the way up before getting any distortion. I just backed them down a little bit and the high volume distortion was gone. I do get a little bit of "static" thru the speakers at very low volume -but I don't mind since I can't hear that noise at all when my car is running !!

When I had a regular deck installed in the car with normal speakers I could hardly hear the music with the car running and the T-Tops off while driving - the BOSE system resolved that problem !!

P.S. Unlike your 87 with the smaller 4" speakers in the hatch - I used a BOSE Gold rear shelf from a 92 Z28 with 6" woofers in the hatch cover.

MasterEvilAce

ah.

well i read that you could get 2 bose or 4 bose.. i checked the kickpanels.. there are no speakers there...

NEEDAZ

An 86 bose vett. Get the checkbook out. The speakers in you car are 1-ohm speakers! Just “by-passing” the amp is not going to be the only thing you’ll need to do. Start looking for new speakers to, it’s the best thing. I know the price at the first shop you when to sounds high, but they sound like they know what they’re doing. You CANN’T run any off the shelf after market head unit with those speakers. Well, you can but you’ll kill the deck. Not Alpine and definitely NOT Pioneer. Their new PAL006a and PAL007a internal amps in the head unit should NOT be used with 1-ohm speakers. Sorry but the best way to do your car is new speakers and HU at the same time and just run new speaker wire.
“The interface has independant (4-channel) "level" adjustments that allow a non-bose head unit to push a lot more power thru the BOSE speaker system than the factory set-up.”

These “level” adjustments are usually just variable resistor, and typically low power variable resistors that may not last to long behind a newer HU. Sorry John in RI, but these interfaces are usually just a band-aid for the real problem.

John in RI

iTrader: (167)

NEEDAZ ---> I'm really not sure what you are talking about, or if you know what you are talking about ! I'm not trying to offend you here - I just can't understand your thinking after my extensive experience with the BOSE systems.

BOSE speakers for an 86 Vett can be bought on E-Bay for around $20-$30 each..... The same thing applies to the Amps. Talking to a dealer is a fools game. Not that it matters since all his Speakers and amps seem to be fine. His complaint was regarding a dead cassette deck and a wish for a CD player.

The first shop that "zfever" went to told him to expect $600 to install a CD player in his vett. That is ridiculous......... All he needs to do is install a BOSE CD player from a 93-up Z28 and he will have a fully functional BOSE CD system for about $125 ! ( + a little $ for the new radio plugs.) If he wants an aftermarket CD player than he will need to pay for the deck, the interface + labor. (about 12 wiring connections, MAYBE 1-2 hours labor for the complete installation)

As far as the interface being a Band Aid, The set-up in my Berlinetta has been powering EIGHT BOSE speakers for over 3 years with NO problems. That's 4 more Speakers and more power than the system was designed for-------- & NO PROBLEMS.

2-4"in the dash
2-4" in the kicks
2-6" in the hatch
2 6x9" in the sails

Using the Interface WILL allow ANY non-BOSE head unit to work with the BOSE speaker system. What makes you thing that you will "Kill the deck" ???? The interface is installed AFTER the deck and before the speakers............... How could that harm the deck in any way-shape-or form since the interface is adjusting the impedance (sp?) AFTER it's sent from the HU ?? Even if someone foolishly tried to install an aftermarket deck WITHOUT using an interface to reduce the signal sent to the speakers ---- the speakers would fail first since they would be getting a much stronger signal from the deck than they were designed for, the deck would not fail...... It would blow the speakers!

The "Bypass" that the second shop was referring to was really the interface - they did not mean by-passing the BOSE Amps. As I said in an earlier post here the Amps are running on a separate power supply than the radio. They are actually closer to giving "zfever" the right answers than the first shop--- Even if they think there is only one Amp running the whole BOSE set-up in his Vett.

PS..... The BOSE speaker set-up in my 95 Z ( NOT FACTORY INSTALLED) is also being used together with a NON-BOSE head unit,......... NO problems there either.

Justins86bird

John - Are the 6"s in the rear full range or use a low pass crossover from BOSE?

John in RI

iTrader: (167)

My Hatch is housing the factory Stock 6" woofers from the 92 Z28 BOSE Gold set-up..........

I wanted to install the 8" BOSE woofers I got from a new Vett - but there is not enough room in the hatch openings for them.

89blackGTA

Do those bose speaker thump pretty good? I had the bose system in my 96 Z28, and it thumped. I have yet to here them in a thirdgen.
If this has been talked about, Im sorry. I just got done working on the roof for 12hrs.

Brian

John in RI

iTrader: (167)

Yes,..... they do. I originally installed the 87-90 BOSE hatch cover with the smaller 4" speakers and they sounded good - but no where near as good as the BOSE Gold set-up from the 92 Z !!

NEEDAZ

“BOSE speakers for an 86 Vett can be bought on E-Bay for around $20-$30 each..... The same thing applies to the Amps. Talking to a dealer is a fools game. Not that it matters since all his Speakers and amps seem to be fine. His complaint was regarding a dead cassette deck and a wish for a CD player.”
That’s because when most people replace the HU they get new speakers, there are a lot of them out there and not many people want them because there 1 ohm speakers. That keeps the cost down. I know that 87 Vett. bose speakers are 1 ohm.

BTW, talk to a Bose engineer and they will tell you that there sound quality comes more form the enclosure, not the speaker it self. 90% of there engineering is on the enclosures. Take a Bose speaker, put it in some free air application or no name enclosure and it will not sound anything like it did in the Bose enclosure.

“All he needs to do is install a BOSE CD player from a 93-up Z28 and he will have a fully functional BOSE CD system for about $125 ! ( + a little $ for the new radio plugs.)” It has to be a compatible Bose HU. Not all of the Bose HU have the same output level, some have a 1.5v p-p output and some have 8V p-p output and there are some in-between. He my end up ether over driving the amp (distortion), or under driving the amp (not that loud if you can even hear it). Also, some of the Bose speakers are 1 ohm, some are 6 ohm, and some are in-between. Some Bose systems use a common ground, and you just should not run a after market HU on a common ground system. There are at LEST 6 different Bose systems used before 92, and there all different in some way. Some are compatible, some are not.

“If he wants an after-market CD player than he will need to pay for the deck, the interface + labor.” Not if it’s like a 87 setup. It’s just not always that simple.

“As far as the interface being a Band Aid, The set-up in my Berlinetta has been powering EIGHT BOSE speakers for over 3 years with NO problems. That's 4 more Speakers and more power than the system was designed for-------- & NO PROBLEMS. ” How the “interface” works is be using resistors, and low power ones, to bring the load the HU see closer to four ohms. We tried one for the 87, when it came in I pulled it apart. The problem with that is that some of the power is dropped across the resistors and not the speakers. Resistors dissipate power as heat not sound.

“Using the Interface WILL allow ANY non-BOSE head unit to work with the BOSE speaker system.” Yes, that right, but there are MUCH better ways.

“What makes you thing that you will "Kill the deck" ???? I didn’t say the interface would kill the deck, if that’s how it can across I sorry, not what I meant. What I meant was that if you drive the speakers right from the HU you run the risk of killing the internal amp in the HU.

“Even if someone foolishly tried to install an aftermarket deck WITHOUT using an interface to reduce the signal sent to the speakers ---- the speakers would fail first since they would be getting a much stronger signal from the deck than they were designed for, the deck would not fail...... It would blow the speakers!” Not how it works. It’s not a problem of how much power is sent to the speakers, It’s the impedance of the speaker. If you use an amp that’s designed to power 4 ohm speakers and run it to 2 or 1 ohm speakers you run the risk of damaging the amp. That’s how it works. And that’s if they take the amp out of the story, if the amp is still there, it a whole different game.

“The "Bypass" that the second shop was referring to was really the interface - they did not mean by-passing the BOSE Amps.” Unless you work for the shop you don’t know that. They may just want to by-pass the amp by cutting the input wires off the amp and extending then a couple of inches to the speaker. That way they can use the wire that are already in the car and not run new ones. There are a LOT of shops that will just by-pass the factory amp. They’ll just jump the signal in wires to the signal out wires, then wire in the HU. Some times you can do that. Not here, back to the impedance problem.

“PS..... The BOSE speaker set-up in my 95 Z ( NOT FACTORY INSTALLED) is also being used together with a NON-BOSE head unit,......... NO problems there either.” And you will not if there the 6 ohm speakers or something similar. Going higher then the impedance is OK, just don’t go lower.

“I'm really not sure what you are talking about, or if you know what you are talking about!” I fix model audio equipment 8 hours a day, five days a week and have for over 7 year. I see all the crap that people blow-up because they don’t know what there doing. HUs dead because someone didn’t ground there amp correctly. Yes, a bad ground on the amp in your trunk could damage the HU in your dash. I’ve seen cars that where burnt to the ground because the installer did the job wrong. I’ve worked with insurance investigators on more then one case like this. Got pay to be an expert witness one time to (if I may toot my own horn). I know all to well what can go wrong. I know I always come to this BBS with what “can” go wrong, but that’s what I look at all day. The one hundred thing that can go wrong and the one thousand thing that can cause.
As a side not: What works for one person may not work for another. We did a test for one manufacture where we had 20 head units, all the same model, consecutive serial numbers, and run then at a ½ ohm load. The HUs where designed to run a 4 ohm load. All but 1 died within 2 hours, one run for 100 hours, then we ended the test. All at the same output power and using the same frequency sweep. 2 hours vs. 4 days, and that’s at a MUCH lower impedance then they when designed to run at. So there an example of the “Well I’ve been running this setup for two years at 2 ohms with no problem” and why some people can getaway with it. That’s also why I usually say “run the risk of damage”. Just because you do something wrong doesn’t necessarily mean you’ll end up with a problem.

Zfever, This is what we did in the 87, we both thought it was the best way to do the gob. We used a harness to put the head unit in. Then we put two new 4 ohms speaker in the vett. We cut the input wires to the amp and run then to the speakers (OK because now the speakers are 4 ohm speakers). Then we removed the Bose amps and terminated the power wire that went to them. It was a little more expensive because of the two speakers, but that car didn’t use a common ground and did use individual amps. This way we didn’t need to run new speaker wire and the speaker where the right impedance.

John in RI

iTrader: (167)

Peripheral Website ------>

Taken from the Periferals Website:

" GMAH12 - General Motors" 1985-90 General Motors Delco Bose Premium Sound System radio replacement adapter. Connects to the speaker level outputs of aftermarket radios and adapts the signal to the 12 pin input harness of the Delco Bose system. Features 4 channel audio level matching. Note: Commonly used in Corvettes & Cadillacs."

He CAN buy ANY CD player he wants and interface it directly into his existing spearker system....... It's really that simple.

No additional labor charges for screwing with his existing wiring.

No concerns regarding the Newer BOSE CD system into his 87 Vett ( Even though I have done this in the past with no problems ).

No Worrying about the radio shop not knowing what they are doing

No Worrying about someone tearing his car apart or added expense about replacing his existing functional speakers/Amps.


Both of my Camaros ( the 84 & the 95) are using a commom ground speaker system and a NON-BOSE head unit...... No Problem. Just leave the radio plugs alone and plug them into the interface. If you try to wire them like a "normal" system with POS & Neg to each channel than you will encounter "FADE" problems from Left-to-Right.

NEEDAZ

Wait, I just re-read one of your posts. “I do get a little bit of "static" thru the speakers at very low volume -but I don't mind since I can't hear that noise at all when my car is running !!”

Well if you think that static at low volume is acceptable then great. Maybe not every one wants static from there stereo. I don’t, not at low levels or any level. Why do you think this is happening? I’ll tell you, for the exact resins I stated earlier.

Thank you for helping me prove my point, I appreciate it.

It’s just like I said, if done right this static wouldn’t be there at all, not at low volume or any volume. The only thing you should ever hear from you speakers is what should be there, and that’s not static, unless it’s part of the song. But if zfever wants static, he can use the “interface”. If not he can do it right or have it done right.

But telling some that there’s no problem with doing something one way and obviously there is, (the “static”) is not the way I hand out advice.

I have only once see one of these “interface” that was worth paying ANY money for. Unfortunately it was a R+D only thing, never made it to production, the estimated retail was around $400-$500. But it was done right, match input impedance, independent signal isolation, discreet push pull amplification, with a true 50W output per channel. You just can’t do it right with a passive interface. It is just too expensive to make them “right”, so they make them cheep and you run into problems like this “static”.

“Even if someone foolishly tried to install an aftermarket deck WITHOUT using an interface to reduce the signal sent to the speakers ---- the speakers would fail first since they would be getting a much stronger signal from the deck than they were designed for, the deck would not fail...... It would blow the speakers!”

Look at MasterEvilAce’s expeerace. “…does it sound good with an aftermarket player? I hooked one up but then it got fried a little after that (without interface)”
Just like I tried to explain, the deck will fail. Or more specifically the amplifier in the HU will fail.

“I'm really not sure what you are talking about, or if you know what you are talking about !” Don’t worry, I’m not offended, I’m sure I know what I’m talking about though, do you?

So you think “static” sounds good, if it’s at low levels and you can’t hear it over your car?

“He CAN buy ANY CD player he wants and interface it directly into his existing spearker system....... It's really that simple. “ If you don’t mind static and Band-Aid fixes.

“If you try to wire them like a "normal" system with POS & Neg to each channel than you will encounter "FADE" problems from Left-to-Right.” You can run into many more problems then that, I don’t even know where to start with how many ways that’s wrong, but that’s a whole new post.

John in RI

iTrader: (167)

Dude -

The ONLY reason there is ANY sound at Low volume (Volume set to ZERO) is because I have the adjustment levels set as high as possible to get more volume from the system. (Static was a bad choice of words on my part and you can clearly see it in quotes 'cause I didn't know how else to describe it.) As soon as the volume is increased (even just a little) that "static" is replaced by music. I don't care what kind of stereo you are listening to Car stereo - home stereo - a concert, whatever,........... if you set the levels close to MAX with no music being played than you WILL hear the same noise I tried to describe.

If I set the levels about 1/8th turn lower on the interface than they were I would hear nothing when the car is off and the stereo was on...... (I know for a fact because I tried it) That's MY preferance - not a result of using the interface. My system is making at least TWICE the volume as a factory BOSE set-up. As soon as my car is started I can't hear anything from the stereo anyway. Therefore; I choose to set the levels as high as possible without distortion at full volume.

I did look at MasterEvilAce’s experience ---- Have you EVER seen a 2 speaker BOSE system in a third Gen ???? I'm sure no one at GM has either. I don't know what he is running or how his connections are made.

Since you have never once said that you have ever actually used this Interface or have ANY experience with it ---- I'm sure you know everything there is to know about it. All I can say is that my points are based on ACTUAL WORKING EXPERIENCE with a Factory BOSE speaker system, a NON-BOSE head unit an a Peripheral interface.

I have no desire to continue this pointless debate with you. I'm also sure that you will post a reply as to have the last word on the matter !!

zfever -

If you decide to use the interface I am sure that you will be very pleased with the results and happy with the light expenses that you will incure.

Or; You could elect to go with an aftermarket deck, New Speakers and a re-wiring Job. I'm sure you will be equally pleased with the sound -- but may not appriciate the enourmous bill handed to you by the radio shop !

Good Luck !

IROCU2

I know this is an old thread but I just ran across this and have a question. Just want to know if those Bose rear subs speakers bolt directly in? Do I have to modify the space where the old 4" speakers were?

John in RI

iTrader: (167)

It's been a LONG time since I've been inside the early BOSE rear speaker locking storage cover. ( 87-89?, the type with 2- 4" speakers) IIRC the amps were screwed to the inside of the box......... I just can't be sure.

About 2 weeks ago I had to replace a blown AMP in the later BOSE rear Speaker locking storage cover. ( 90?-92 the type with 2- 6" woofers) In that system the amps are screwed to the bottom of the speaker.

IROCU2

Ok thanks. I will look for the rear locking storage cover from the 90 -92.

Fire"Dutch"Bird

iTrader: (1)

Is that interface still available?
The stock ( cassette) unit in my 88 Firebird is shot, and I bought a new Blaupunkt unit with CD player.
Haven't installed it yet, but with the stock Bose speakers I do need that interface, right?
Is their a current website or partnumber ( Ebay..??) for the interface I need?

abray1

I did my 90 Corvette myself and it came with the bose option. I installed Infinity Kappa speakers in the sill panels and the rear panels and got a double din kenwood deck to replace the factory deck. I got a kenwood 742 4 channel amp and put it under the drivers seat and has worked great since the late 90s. The wiring isnt that hard and is mostly a plug and play thing but you do have to take the seats and sill panels out to run the wires and install the speakers.

Fire"Dutch"Bird

iTrader: (1)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PIE-HRC-GM32...-/291023892718

Is this what I need, when replacing the stock Delco radio casette unit for an aftermarket Blaupunkt unit and keeping the stock Bose speakers?

Or this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Car-Stereo-R...-/331041740571

mjdavis68

iTrader: (1)

i've used the PAC stuff with no problems

John in RI

iTrader: (167)

Fire"Dutch"Bird

Your Firebird doesn't have BOSE; It probably has a "SUB" system that's a bit different. ( I *THINK* that you can simply wire the aftermarket deck to your current speaker system. ) I am not sure of the specifics of the SUB system,..... but it's not BOSE. Be sure to do some more research before buying anything to be sure it will work for you.


I used a "Peripherals Electronics" Vendetta 4.5 to install a non-BOSE deck with a BOSE speaker system. I know they quit making them a few years ago ( bought out by PAC ) but don't know what's NEW on the market that will work.

John in RI

iTrader: (167)

Funny; reading thru this thread 10 years later,........



I had to replace a couple amps over the years but still using the same non-BOSE head unit, same BOSE speakers, and SAME INTERFACE ! Over a decade of use isn't bad for a "band-aid" fix !

Fire"Dutch"Bird

iTrader: (1)

Are you sure about that?
I have the Delco radio/cassette player with equalizer option and speaker system that came with it...?

John in RI

iTrader: (167)

If it says "BOSE" than it's BOSE. If it don't,.........


I've got the Pontiac "SUB" system in my 88 GTA; It's not BOSE. I have not altered the GTA sytem from it's factory specs, but IIRC that system should accept any 'regular' delco deck.


Like I said; look into it more before buying stuff !!

Fire"Dutch"Bird

iTrader: (1)

OK, thanks, I guess I have to take a speaker out to be sure if it's Bose or not..
Anyway I have the RPO codes U66, UX1, UQ1 and B67.
Is there a code for Bose?