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I was curious if there were any bolt on sub frame connectors that don't require drilling holes in the floor and use existing holes in the subframes by any chance? I figured that if it required drilling holes in my floor, I might as well just weld them in at that point. Most "bolt on" ones I've seen require drilling holes...
I'm not aware of any bolt on that don't require drilling additional holes. If you have access to a welder then the weld-in type are the way to go. You're never going to get the same amount of stiffness from bolt on ones.
I'm not aware of any bolt on that don't require drilling additional holes. If you have access to a welder then the weld-in type are the way to go. You're never going to get the same amount of stiffness from bolt on ones.
No doubt.. The car we got is just so clean that I want to limit it to boltons so that it can potentially be undone down the road if the next owner wanted to return it to stock.
Also look at the wonder bar and strut tower braces for more stiffness. wonderbar is bolt on. I think there are a few bolt on Subframe Connectors out there, better than nothing. the Alstons may have the most ground clearance, not certain on that.
Also look at the wonder bar and strut tower braces for more stiffness. wonderbar is bolt on. I think there are a few bolt on Subframe Connectors out there, better than nothing. the Alstons may have the most ground clearance, not certain on that.
Awesome.. I'll ask them for the instructions and check those out.. Because we have a convertible, I figured some extra stiffness wouldn't hurt. I've done weld ins on my other car before.. But this car won't be a big hp car and I figured bolt ons would help alot, while allowing me to not cut or permanently modify and real clean car.
Awesome.. I'll ask them for the instructions and check those out.. Because we have a convertible, I figured some extra stiffness wouldn't hurt. I've done weld ins on my other car before.. But this car won't be a big hp car and I figured bolt ons would help alot, while allowing me to not cut or permanently modify and real clean car.
Also second that I have never seen any bolt in subframe connectors that use any OEM bolt holes in the unibody. All of the bolt in ones that I have ever seen require drilling into the unibody. As has been stated already, I would also not recommend using bolt in subframe connectors. Where they attach to the unibody, there is no way to get a strong enough connection with bolts. The drilled holes will deform and elongate over time. Drill the holes and use the bolts to get then held in place, then weld them in permanantly. I would either weld in subframe connectors, or not do them at all.
As already recommended, a wonderbar is a good addition. It's totally bolt in, using existing holes by the steering box and idler arm. I don't know what car you have, but if it's an Iroc, then you already have one.
A strut tower brace is a good addition as well, but that also requires drilling into the car.
Subframe connectors are a very good addition to these cars, even ones without a lot of power. It's really not about the chassis twist from power, but more about the general flex of the body just driving around. It makes a huge difference. I would say unless you are talking about a very low mileage, unmolested original car that is one of the desirable packages that bring good money, I would go ahead and do the weld in subframe connectors.
Also second that I have never seen any bolt in subframe connectors that use any OEM bolt holes in the unibody. All of the bolt in ones that I have ever seen require drilling into the unibody. As has been stated already, I would also not recommend using bolt in subframe connectors. Where they attach to the unibody, there is no way to get a strong enough connection with bolts. The drilled holes will deform and elongate over time. Drill the holes and use the bolts to get then held in place, then weld them in permanantly. I would either weld in subframe connectors, or not do them at all.
As already recommended, a wonderbar is a good addition. It's totally bolt in, using existing holes by the steering box and idler arm. I don't know what car you have, but if it's an Iroc, then you already have one.
A strut tower brace is a good addition as well, but that also requires drilling into the car.
Subframe connectors are a very good addition to these cars, even ones without a lot of power. It's really not about the chassis twist from power, but more about the general flex of the body just driving around. It makes a huge difference. I would say unless you are talking about a very low mileage, unmolested original car that is one of the desirable packages that bring good money, I would go ahead and do the weld in subframe connectors.
No doubt.. The car we got is just so clean that I want to limit it to boltons so that it can potentially be undone down the road if the next owner wanted to return it to stock.
Then welded connectors should be a no brainer. If you might return it to stock for whatever reason grinding some weld off would be better than filling in a bunch of drilled holes
I'd figure out your power plans and go from there. I have both inboard (Alston) and out boards. The Alstons take a small amount of ground clearance and are a little more tricky around the crossmember if it's not stock. Don't wast your time bolt on one's.
From: Franklin, KY near Beech Bend Raceway, Corvette Plant and Museum.
Car: 1992 Pontiac Firebird
Engine: 5.0L L03 TBI
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 2.73
Re: True bolt on subframe connectors?
S & W Race Cars makes a set that will work with your 1991 Trans Am convertible. You can't use outer style connectors unless they are specially made for ASC convertibles.
They made a mild steel street version with the outriggers and now they seem to just offer the race style chrome moly connectors without the outriggers. Your car wouldn't be able to use the discontinued street style ones because of the riveted on subframe connectors ASC installed on the convertibles.
NOTE: The webpage for these state they are powder coated silver. If you don't want silver I'd call and ask if you can get them in Satin Black or Gloss Red or not powder coated at all and have them powder coated locally how you want them done.
The pictures below are of the discontinued street style with outriggers.
I'd highly recommend a TDS Wonder Bar for your Trans Am convertible. It makes a world of difference.
Guess I didn't think or recall holes needed drilled. That IS a bit of a setback. Also, didn't know you have a convert. The Alstons were made for verts I think. Was reading the fine print of the outters, and it says doesnt fit verts. ooops. Armed with this new knowledge I think the definition of reversible becomes unbolting, and filling in the holes with metal and grinding down the weld OR cutting off the connectors and grinding down the welds. As far as the elongatation of a hole, seems to me that would take quite a few miles, and I doubt your car is a daily driver. that's just shooting from the hip, dont really know what kind of steel was used in our frames. Seems to me that if a the hole is drilled to perfect size, then the bolt cant start digging at the metal as its moving around, it would not or should not be moving around. and if it does, well, back to the welder.
Guess I didn't think or recall holes needed drilled. That IS a bit of a setback. Also, didn't know you have a convert. The Alstons were made for verts I think. Was reading the fine print of the outters, and it says doesnt fit verts. ooops. Armed with this new knowledge I think the definition of reversible becomes unbolting, and filling in the holes with metal and grinding down the weld OR cutting off the connectors and grinding down the welds. As far as the elongatation of a hole, seems to me that would take quite a few miles, and I doubt your car is a daily driver. that's just shooting from the hip, dont really know what kind of steel was used in our frames. Seems to me that if a the hole is drilled to perfect size, then the bolt cant start digging at the metal as its moving around, it would not or should not be moving around. and if it does, well, back to the welder.
Given the options available, I'd rather just weld, which I can do.
I'll probably grab a wonder bar for now and see how it feels... On my last car, Just a piece of 1x3 steel tubing connecting the front and rear frames made a huge difference... It doesn't have to be as crazy as some of the stuff being sold...
I was really hoping for a simple option. But if that's not available, I'll do my exhaust and then see what things look like underneath afterwards...
Well, I'm in your camp. I really want a bolt on solution. I put the wonder bar on because it is bolt on. Definitely makes steering tighter, but does nothing to improve rigidity behind it. When I put my car up on the lift or leave the driveway I cringe at the body flex. In your case (and maybe mine) I think the Alstons will go a long way. Ed here with a Red Formula hardtop who installed the Alstons and said he really liked them. His post is around here somewhere, hes no longer active because he totaled his car and got a 4th gen. I asked him a lot of questions because I didn't want to see subframe connecters hanging out under the car, you know ruining the factory appearance, something that is important to me. When I put one of my BMW's on the lift, the body is so stiff, if it was balanced, you could lift it with just one half of an arm of the lift and the rest would float in air. Not a 3rd gen, the rest would sag down.
Well, I'm in your camp. I really want a bolt on solution. I put the wonder bar on because it is bolt on. Definitely makes steering tighter, but does nothing to improve rigidity behind it. When I put my car up on the lift or leave the driveway I cringe at the body flex. In your case (and maybe mine) I think the Alstons will go a long way. Ed here with a Red Formula hardtop who installed the Alstons and said he really liked them. His post is around here somewhere, hes no longer active because he totaled his car and got a 4th gen. I asked him a lot of questions because I didn't want to see subframe connecters hanging out under the car, you know ruining the factory appearance, something that is important to me. When I put one of my BMW's on the lift, the body is so stiff, if it was balanced, you could lift it with just one half of an arm of the lift and the rest would float in air. Not a 3rd gen, the rest would sag down.
I have Alsons on my car. When I used to jack my car up onto 4 stands, the flex was crazy. Now it is super stiff. Car feels a lot better.
Buuuut, just so you know, you can see them from the side. Passenger side specifically. So keep that in mind if that bothers you.
Well, I'm in your camp. I really want a bolt on solution. I put the wonder bar on because it is bolt on. Definitely makes steering tighter, but does nothing to improve rigidity behind it. When I put my car up on the lift or leave the driveway I cringe at the body flex. In your case (and maybe mine) I think the Alstons will go a long way. Ed here with a Red Formula hardtop who installed the Alstons and said he really liked them. His post is around here somewhere, hes no longer active because he totaled his car and got a 4th gen. I asked him a lot of questions because I didn't want to see subframe connecters hanging out under the car, you know ruining the factory appearance, something that is important to me. When I put one of my BMW's on the lift, the body is so stiff, if it was balanced, you could lift it with just one half of an arm of the lift and the rest would float in air. Not a 3rd gen, the rest would sag down.
I've got BMR outboard subframe connectors on my car and it's really stiff. Can't see them either unless you got down and looked at just the right angle, but if you're going to those lengths that's just the ultimate in pettiness.
I have Alsons on my car. When I used to jack my car up onto 4 stands, the flex was crazy. Now it is super stiff. Car feels a lot better.
Buuuut, just so you know, you can see them from the side. Passenger side specifically. So keep that in mind if that bothers you.
With the Alstons (or others for that matter), do you lose your lift point in the back? The spot where you put a 2 post car lift to raise the car?
I've got BMR outboard subframe connectors on my car and it's really stiff. Can't see them either unless you got down and looked at just the right angle, but if you're going to those lengths that's just the ultimate in pettiness.
Is that the only subframe connector you have, the outboards? Sounds like you are not losing any ground clearance at all?
The out boards don't loose ground clearance. The Alstons do loose a little. Neither causes a loss in ability for jack points. I use my outboards as a jack point and have for years. On cars with ground effects you should barely be able to see either support. On my 82 ta w no ground effects you can barely see them.
Is that the only subframe connector you have, the outboards? Sounds like you are not losing any ground clearance at all?
Yes those are the only ones and there's no ground clearance lost at all they tuck up really nice. I have a brand new set of Alstons sitting under my bed but I would have to modify them to get them to fit
With the Alstons (or others for that matter), do you lose your lift point in the back? The spot where you put a 2 post car lift to raise the car?
The real beauty of subframe connectors is that you gain excellent jacking points at all 4 locations. Even if you don't care at all about chassis rigidity, subframe connectors are worth it just for the ease of jacking/lifting.
91 Formula, 305 TPI 5 speed with T tops... Alston Inner and Spohn outer...
Every little bit helps, wonder bar, strut tower brace...
91 & 92 were stiffer than previous years since GM used strong seam sealer on the last 2 years.
But my car still flexed more without the subframe connectors when going up a drive way curb, etc...
As someone else said, keeping it stock motor, or more power?
Another improvement for my car, the Ploly Joint Rear Lower Control Arms...
I had some solid aftermarket ones, but the poly ones which allow articulation made a difference in ride and handleing... Get adjustable ones if you're not sticking with stock ride height...
