Im 16 i own a camaro allot of people at my school own shitty *** hondas with there fart cans sticking out and they lower the cars so damn low to the ground a rock could rip it apart, i have a v6 in my car i don't care still sounds better than those bumblebees most people drive now, i laugh at them, this summer i was at the beach with some friends they all have muscle cars lol, and it was a ***** fest down the beach every single car there was a JAP Crap car and every single one had some kind of body damage on it, crack bumper, taped on headlight, entire front end missing and a radiator turned sideways, some on flat decks, i was thinking what is this the next filming of the fast and the furious, and everyone there on the beach all looked like douches with their hair slicked backwards and talking like they come from the ghetto or the streets damn it pisses me off.

 

so the word R I C E R comes out as ******* lol?

 

I kinda like those new volvo hatchbacks. There a pretty good looking car, though I don't know much about them. And I really don't care much for NSX's. They are gorgeous cars, but for the price, they have very poor performance. I wish it was some sort of supercharged or turbo V6 rather than an N/A one. Just seems like your paying for the looks and rarity than real performance.

 

Theres a lot of strange words that are censored on this site. Makes me wonder sometimes lol.

 

i think most of the v6 or performance/cost effective hatchbacks aren't sold on this side of the ocean. anyway does chevy hav anything that is competing with the ford focus?

 

The cobalt? Or did they can that one now too? I really havn't paid much attention to chevy these days ever since they became Obama motors. I'd buy a new ford anyday over a chevy....but I do love my 3rd gen.

 

I would say the Volt or Sonic looks like Chevy's Focus competitor

 

Or the Volt is competition to the Prius (lol no competition)

 

Tuner cars just like v8s come out slow to me high to mid 13s car is not fast. All tuners (fast ones) are sleepers. It will happen you will be rolling around town on a good day race a few ppl u win most kill some stangs wishing u had a camera to put it on youtube and sume kid who spent all his refound check on mods on his let's say 1995 Honda Accord witch sounds like a weed wacker under the hood and he gives u the look and u think (*****) and y'all take off at the light u killin him and all u hear is a bov and the tires scratching after every shift and he is comming fast and bam u are looking at some ugly spoiler and some cheap chrome tail lights. Ricers (tuners) think they are fast the same reason we do because we beat most of are friends cars and some street races u shoulda lost on paper and XBOX 360 XBOX for life well till I out grow them witch I bout there. Yes I was a TUNER and I may go back but the torque I love it I'm not going back I don't think so tuners are truly kid cars and I grew older the seen didn't I'm stil young but beeing with a bunch of 16 year olds wen u are 22 married with a child just don't see eye to eye

 

I see those tuners around here all the time. It seems the ''hellaflush'' trend has started here.

Before getting my GTP I wanted to get a Honda Hatchback. Make up a small turbo system and supporting mods and go nuts. I hate how peope dismiss them due to the retards out there who are just there for looks. If I didn't have my 86 my ride would of probably been a Supra at this point.

 

Me too and a non v8 Fbody with a Iroc bumper or grondeffects is rice to me v4 and I4 is a rice of third gen I don't like that we have v6 in the car club I'm in but I don't make the rules

 

I am leaving mine alone as far as mods go because it's gonna go to my brother and I don't want to sink a lot of my cash in a car I am only going to drive for the next 6 months or so. However I am going to install the creature comforts like the radio that is currently sitting in the trunk, installing a new window regulator, and also getting to the bottom of the heated seat not working. Hopefully I can get a whole new headlight assembly as well.

I just wonder how many 1999 Grand Prix GTP Limited Editions they made...

As before continue your endless bickering lol.

 

Actually they are pretty quick. On Top Gear U.K they raced one against the new Vette and it killed it. 286hp V6, 0-60 in 4.8 seconds (some claim much less, like 4.2), Top speed of about 170 mph, and a curb weight of just over 3,000lbs I believe. Not to mention i's one of the most aerodynamically perfect cars in the world. You can get an early 90's model in good condish for a little under 25k (and this is a quallity car your getting). Slap on some STS turbos for 8k and you have a 450+hp super car. That means Ferrari 430S performance for 32gs. Not bad when you put it into perspective.

 

I hate top gear UK....LOL, jeremy never has ANYTHING good to say about "yank cars." And with a weight of just over 3000 lbs and only 286 HP, I find it very hard to believe that it has better performance than a new vette with over 400 HP and the same weight. I'm not doubting you, just that top gear may be a bit biased toward thier european and jap cars! I have no doubt the vette is faster in a straight line, and I'm sure a vette would give it a run for the money around a track as well with a good driver. Like I said, I love the way they look, just not the first car I'd go out and buy if I had the cash laying around.

 

Very true. I never said it was faster then the vette by the way, just said the nsx beat it in that race. and I also HATE how they are so biast to European cars. "Don't get the Camaro SS, get the 90 thousand pound AMG Merc! It a much better muscle car!"

Do they even know what a muscle car is? Its not a 100k+ Merc I can tell you that much.

 

my brother has an 04 STi and i have to say, i respect it. it's a nice car. it's fast. it has a great exhaust note, and as an AWD car with 320+ hp (obviously his is not stock) it is both agile and fast. to add to that, why put down power adders? i mean, i see plenty of american V8s with superchargers, turbochargers, or sipping at the bottle, and you don't see anyone disrespecting them for that. i mean, it's impressive to me to see a 2 liter 4 cylinder put out as much power as a stock ls1. but yeah, there are always those idiots who have no class and no respect for anyone. my dream car has and always will be a 1969 Chevelle SS, but **** if someone handed me the keys to their 1997 Toyota Supra, i would not be disappointed in the least. as far as i'm concerned, all that hate between fanboys of american or imports, or even between different makes from the same locale is just rivalry that's gone too far over time.

 

Yea the one thing about the NSX is that it handles amazingly. The only thing I hate about when someone says "well this car will outhandle that one on a track, yada yada..." Is that how many of us are ever going to have our cars on a real track? But then how many of us will do a quick couple gear race on the street against another car? And in that case, a vette will win every time hands down. I love going fast in a straight line whether at a drag strip or not. I'm just a big acceleration fan, and if a car does that quickly, I'm happy! I wasn't putting you down at all...just top gear!

 

they did have a thirdgen on one of there episodes when they came to the states but they always put American cars down like the new camaro ("its something a murder would drive"?) and wen comparing an 80,000 car to a 30,000 might as well put a corvette zo6 then we'll see which one is better for the money

 

ive also tried to find the limits of my car (autox) so i get a better idea of how hard i can push it without putting myself or any1 else in danger. now not much people will push there car in all aspects (cornering,acceleration,deceleration) so wen they race wat happens? they end up drifting there car around a corner right into a tree/ or accelerate too hard lose control of the car/ or dont even know how there car will react to a sudden stomp to the brakes. now if i were to look up street race crashes i bet you the majority of those crashes are in a "honda/import tuner" which to me implies that tuners might have fast cars but no skill whatsoever in controlling their tuned vehicle.

 

I am in love with mine at the moment. This car as well is basically gonna end up to the parents. I will be driving it for the winter and letting them use it for the summer while I drive the crap out of the 86.

Lets just say this car makes me want to stick a Supercharger in the 86.

 

Let me start by saying this, there is a huge difference between modding your car and just out right making it junk. I own a 91 formula that had a 305 tpi originally as a starting point for a v8 this engine is basically junk from the factory. Now compare that to my 91 TT NISSAN 300zx and the 300 beats out the v8 from the start as a great platform to build on. Both are rwd both 5 speeds but let's face it nissans 5 speed from the factory has held over 800hp when is the last time a t5 with out upgrades has held that at the track. It's all about the platform you are modding. Rice body kits are just for the "oh look at me I'm special" crowd. I've seen 800 HP boosted civics on the street in el paso that you would never know had the hp until it was time to race. Basically any engine can be built with enough $ lb for lb inch for inch nothing beats muscle under boost just some can still be street driven

 

300zx are nice. I was looking into one for a Daily a while ago. A neighbor has one that he has put around the same money as I have into my 86. Lets just say hes in a totally different league.

I love our third gens to death but I am surely not ignorant enough to call every other car that goes up against ours cars crap. I am sure for what I have put into my 86 I could of built a pretty fast Hatchback or gotten myself a nice Supra. Maybe one make it into my fleet next year, who knows.

 

I remember that episode. It was an 89 RS 5.0 5 speed. Funny thing is he REALLY liked the car. "I would rather be in this right now than an Enzo Ferrari. And I'm not joking." -Jeremy Clarkson

And I think he means these cars are driven by Bad Asses. Over there they don't have allot of the tuff, intimidating, head banging, cooler than you bad asses, like we do here in the US of A. they Have allot of murderers though, and thats what they find intimidating. It's an intimidating type of car, often driven by an intimidating type of person.

 

Hey there. I am new'ish to the forum. I say "new'ish" because I used login back in 99...lol, but since forgot my id and had to create new one.
I just got '92 firebird TBI from my kid (can't beat free!!!). I also had few "japs" along the way as well as I've gone trhough "rice" time, although pretty fast .
From my personal experience: to make civic go fast, it's totally possible, but be prepared to spend another civic for that.... I owned WRX, great little wagon, good power after 3000 RPM, but from dead stop, a corola could walk on me. I tried all the tricks in a book, but still no power below 2500 rpm. Handling was great though. At the end of the day, I had to sell it because transmission died . Now for Firebird, I am only going over suspension for now, next will be brakes etc, etc. Powerwise, it's not the most powerfull car, but it's ok. Brakes out right suck. And it twists and rattles like nothing else in a world.... but!!! it's simple as a hammer, GM crancked out alot of fast cars and sold it to not very skillfull drivers, so parts are plenty, it's light and very aerodynamic. Besides, it's like 2 feet tall and I like that .
Another + for GM is where you've seen classic resto-mod civic???? And F-bodies just stop dropping in price 10 years ago...
Bottom line: if you know what you doing, anything is possible with the right amount of $$, everything else is a matter of taste.
Ou and I have to agree on "If you don't like my sh***t you can kiss my *** attitude" being voiced here....
If anybody wants to hate on something go to ricecop.com. Rice is a way of thinking, like hiphop, not a "tuning method" , it can happen to any car depending on an owner.
Cheers

 

I have to agree on the part about how F-bodies stopped dropping in price. I don't care what kind of car it is, but ANY rear wheel drive american sports car or muscle car will get to a certain point where it will start to increase in value again. Some are worth much more than others, but a car like a honda, acura, etc will just keep on dropping. Even most BMW's, mercedes, etc will ussually hit thier rock bottom and never be worth anymore. American cars just have this love where they will always drop in price but then rise back up at some point which is one of the things I love about them!

 

Yeeeep.

 

On a subject of retaining price. It's not only for stock "all number match" cars. Most of the things that are done to a v8 kind will retain at least 50% of value at sale time. Not anywhere near so on import cars market. On that side the situation is vise versa. The more "cool and tasteful" mods are done to a civic the less % can be had back at sale. This is purely demographics thing. Most of import cars byers not looking for B20 civics.... And there's no year one or classic industries for most of japaneese or european cars either, and boy do they rust LOOOOL

 

I agree with scorp88 unless you are in Japan few imports will retain value stateside

 

Here' s the proof that RICE is not contained to imports:
http://www.ricecop.com/gallery.php?m...t&model=Camaro
....enjoy

 

Sacralage

 

There are many imports that either retain value or are going up in value. Look at old Datsuns from the '60s and '70s. I know of a POS '74 260Z locally that the owner was told was worth $1500, to sell, even though the hatch is rotten, as in missing a complete corner, the rear wheel wells are nearly gone, not sure if it runs, and it's a 260Z, which is not one of the desirable versions, even though it is an early '74 260Z, so it does have the 240Z front valance and bumper. My point is that even imports can not only level off in re-sale value but increase as well. Many restored examples of 240Zs, are in the $18,000+ range, with absolute concours type restorations going for beyond $30,000 in some cases. These cars new were selling for between $3500 and $5000.

There are many other cars that are following suit.

There is also the difference that the imports here don't hold their re-sale value simply because they are imports. Flip the cards and go to where the cars were originally made, and you'll likely find that the cars that are imports here, hold their value better than what are imports in those countries. Patriotism?

Personally, after working on both imports and domestics as careers, I would in many cases prefer to own certain imports over most domestics.In fact I can't think of one domestics I would seek out to own, for anything other than collector value or maybe some nostalgia, while I can think of a bunch of imports that I would like to own and enjoy. I'm saying this as someone who was raised wearing a bow-tie, and pretty much nothing but a bow-tie. I'm not blinded by patriotism, I see how things, especially cars really are.

 

No contest there. I did say "most" though. Don't forget that "tuner cars" are being hated upon round here And patriotism is a GOOD thing that I think we altimately lack somewhat.
Most imports holding their value much better then domestic cars.... as long as they stock. I was mentioning resale price of "modifications" though. Domestic car manufacturers were among other things at a disadvantage having to deal with unions and I agree, domestics for the most part are under-engineered...but, we discussing particular make here (3rd gen) and price to value of this particular one is very hard to beat (as a "tuner" platform) no?
My daily driver is '07 v8 4runner btw and as much as I want to say it's super quality, it is not. It's a very solid car but it has problems never the less and pretty expensive ones at that. My father owned '84 or something Chrysler New Yorker and drove 200K miles on it without ANY mechanical issues, maintanence only... go figure

 

Six_Shooter, I know that there are certainly some imports that hold a good value. A few examples are 93+ supras, any STI, any EVO, etc. But for the most part, most of them will just lose value and never regain it. On the flip side, almost every american RWD V8 sports car has always went up in value after a certain point. It may take 20, even 30 years, but they are always worth money to somebody. I recently saw a fully restored bone stock honda CRX...I believe it was an 87 or so. This thing was gorgeous...even under the hood looked brand new with a rebuilt motor. The guy was asking $6K for it, and I'm sure that car had WAY more time and money into it than that.

Our 3rd gens are a prime example. If any car was never going to be worth money, it was one from the 80's....but today clean cars go for up to $10K and some extremely low mileage examples have sold for over $15K. I just meant that MOST american cars retain value while MOST japanese cars do not. In either case there are exceptions though.

And as far as across seas, they do like thier american muscle cars as well. There are american car meets and groups all over the world, and secretly I think a lot of people have a silent love for them, even if they all say they do nothing more than go in a straight line....they do that very well though!

 

Compare apples to apples...

The ('80s) equivalent of the Civic in American terms, is the Cavalier/Sunbird, Escort, Aries, and a few others, all of which are also equally worth almost nil. The Ford EXP would be the closest I can think of for the CRX, as a same class car, which are also equally worth very little, usually more than the Escort they are based on, but not much over all.

Why compare a Civic, which is an economy car, to a Camaro, which is by some people considered a sports car?

The EXACT same trend you describe for the American Sports car is also happening for the Import Sports cars, and non sports car Imports as well. After 20 to 30 years they are bringing in higher returns when sold, they when they were a newer car.

So compare apples to apples and you'll see that regardless of it being a domestic or an import sports car, the value at some point will go up.

FWIW, I see '80s RX-7s, AE86s, and a few other RWD Imports being advertised for and getting much more money than a same or similar year Third Gen F-body.

Honestly, if I was looking for an American car to invest in, even if it was just for pleasure with no plan to ever re-sell, the third gen F-body would be very near the bottom of my list. I don't know many people that don't feel the same way, even some that have owned third gen F-bodies in the past.

 

dude i did the same heater core job and had to stitch my had open original owner didnt tell me he cut a piece of sheet metal so another piece right next to it would stop squeaking. it sucked. Just graduating highschool i can say to everyone most teens think every honda, toyota, and mitsubishi is fast. Theyre all talk and wont spend money on going to a strip i say let them crash and they will eventually become extinct

 

Around where I live, I can't remember the last time I saw an 80's RX7 going for more than a decent third gen. Those cars are not the greatest unless it's the ultra rare turbo model. Also, I can't EVER remember the last time I saw an AE86 (corolla) for sale around here. Personally, I think those are the ugliest and most over hyped cars on the planet...but thats just me. Nissan 240SX's I see going for ussually $2K or less. I regularly check craigslist for 3rd gens just to browse and honestly, nobody sells them for less than $3-5K anymore unless they are a total pile. I agree about not investing in a 3rd gen for a car that'll be worth money, but the car hobby in general is a money losing game. I sank around $16K into my bird so far, and I don't ever think I'll get it back....but thats not what I'm building it for. I'm sure that most true gearheads will never recover what they have into thier cars.

 

My Tuner/Drift racer friend Jonas has An AE86 Corolla drift car. It's pretty cool, but it's not very fast. He's used to powerfull cars, like 600hp corollas, but not fast cars. My dad took him for a ride in our Custom Dodge Magnum R/T (it has about 400hp) and scared the crap out of him. Hah, it's not even THAT fast. No funny feeling in your belly when you nail it.

 

Boy am I glad I sturred a pot a bit ...but my point got a bit scewed in more then one way so let me re-itterate:
Why I agreed to stash my son's t-bird in my garage? (although to be honest I didn't want him to buy that car to begin with) Simple: JUNKED CARS!!!
And no matter who deals what argument. Gettning LS2 engine+tranny combo for 7K is UNBEATABLE period. There's no supra in a world that can compete with that value wise. Yes I can get JDM 2JZ or even 1JZ engine for around 2K, but as being noted here, it's powerfull, but not fast and making it fast will cost ALOT! not to mention that I'll need a supra to go with it which is again btw is heavier then any 3rd gen to begin with. Getting my point? I am a big fan of cheap power. If I wasn't I'd bee looking for testarossa or diablo right now LOL.... and NONE of japs are street ridable when "hooked up" I doubt 800 hp civic wil be able to turn. LS/LT family is abot the only one that make usable street torque at midrange (anybody is welcome to prove me wrong on that) apples to apples or oranges or bananas, dosen't matter what matters is $$/HP ratio. Bottom line: after about $10K and lots and lots of elbow greese I'll probably end up with pretty fast and somewhat good handling car. And if ever going to sell it, I'll probably get most of my money back. And I'll probably won't be far off if I say, in case of LS2 I'll maybe even make some provided that it's 100% DIY.
I am not in a habit of hatin' or judging either, to eahch it's own. If somebody thinks $1500 body kit for '97 camry is a good way to spend time and money, so be it....

 

Or you could just buy a 2JZ and put it in a $1500 240SX like my buddy did and have basically a 10 second car with a few upgrades. A 2JZ doesn't HAVE to go in a supra, just as an LS1 doesn't HAVE to go in a 4th gen. And I would hardly say the LT/LS engines are the only ones with useable midrange torque. How bout mustang GT's, GT500's, challengers, etc etc. Buddy of mine built a 347 stroker for his mustang. It makes 300 lbs ft of torque at 2700 rpm.....thing is a stump puller, and hates tires!

 

Ok, LS/LT/GT .
Hemi: usable but not cheap. Where did you see challenger that's under $10K?
2JZ + 240SX, cheap'ish (although it depends of how much fab you can do yourself), but not very usable and you will possilby rase some brows at DMV's in some counties. Another issue would be engine's lifespan, so dollar for dollar displacement vs forced induction still wins

 

Or just do a LS1 240 here is one local to my house


http://rochester.craigslist.org/cto/2664963934.html

 

That's quite impressive especially considering that 240sx is effectively about 400Lbs lighter. But again, asking price is $10000. In my project estimate LS1 equipped bird comes out a smidge over $5K, and that's a half. $10K estimate is for LS2, both estimates include interrior overhaul and paint job. Also, amount of labor that went in to that hybrid is almost prohibitive, at least for a garage mechanic wanabe like me

 

FC TII's aren't that rare, I've always been able to find them decently priced, and to be honest I'd rock another tII in a heartbeat, the investment to payoff ratio is so much better than our cars, granted I love my camaro but I spent 800$ to get an rtech ecm to tune, 720cc injectors and a fuel cut defender and had a hell of alot more power, plus they come stock with 4.10's in the rear, so far my camaro has taken around 10 grand over the years I've had it and I had to have my block worked on the 350, I did a quick port job on the 13b in my garage in a day lol using a dremel of all things

They'reboth very fun cars and I'd love to have them both but my rx7 lost the fight when my daughter came into the picture

 

Well I didn't know price was an issue...I just read in your post that the LS/LT engines are the only ones with good midrange torque, but there are a ton of other engines that can do that...even for a decent price. How bout the good old small block chevy engine?

And in all honesty, my freinds 2JZ 240 is very reliable. He didn't spend all that much building it, and he bought the engine with a tranny for $1700. Thats about what an LS1 goes for without a 6 speed! Don't know what counties it would raise an eybrow in, but it's perfectly fine here. I can't imagine why having a 2JZ motor in a 240 would be any different than having an LS1 in a 3rd gen though.

$5K for an LS1 swapped 3rd gen with new paint and an interior overhaul? No way man. You left out some serious cash on that one, and when the time comes for you to actually do it, I can almost guarantee the engine swap alone will cost you about $5K. And thats not including what you actually paid for the car itself. A 240SX is also probably more like 800 lbs lighter than a 3rd gen. My buddies with the heavier 2JZ engine weighs 2700 lbs and he had it on an actual scale. Only thing missing from the car are some of the rear plastics.

 

$5K for an LS1 swapped 3rd gen with new paint and an interior overhaul? No way man. You left out some serious cash on that one, and when the time comes for you to actually do it, I can almost guarantee the engine swap alone will cost you about $5K. And thats not including what you actually paid for the car itself. A 240SX is also probably more like 800 lbs lighter than a 3rd gen. My buddies with the heavier 2JZ engine weighs 2700 lbs and he had it on an actual scale. Only thing missing from the car are some of the rear plastics.[/quote]

I didn't pay for a car.... and I said "a little over 5K" but If I am careful I'll fit in. I can do upholstery, so interior won't be much. My estimated cost in leather and vinyl is about 300, If I stay with original carpet and steering wheel that would be it. I'll just foam and epoxy/fiberglass dash top and upholster with vinyl. 5.3 vortech can be bought for around $1k, I know it's a long shot, but possible and that's an LS1 ain't it? The biggest expense is transmission, but I can forgo T56 and use borg's 5 speed. Keeping fingers crossed for 5K. Just this morning paid for LS1 calipers+backplates/brackets for rear+aluminum driveshaft: total $375 shipped.
S14 "documented" curb weight 2700'ish Lbs 91 t-bird 3300. 2JZ gotta be heavier than S14's 4 banger and LS1 is lighter then L'whatever 305 is in there now, 400LBs diff?

 

There's no way you're getting leather, at least not real leather and vinyl, enough to do an interior for $300.

Your prices on engine swap is also quite low.

I think you'll get a hard wake up call, when you actually start swapping parts. There is a LOT of nickle and dime stuff that adds up quick.

Also there are a LOT of other engines out there I would use long before an LSx/LTx/SBC, and many of them are foreign.

As said, the 2JZ (which I think is an over rated engine, thanks to the Fake and the Festivous), doesn't need to go into a Supra.

Here's a 1st gen Camaro with a 2JZ. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZqtJTlXON8

Here is a boat with a 2JZ: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P12ug...eature=related

2nd gen Firebird... guess which engine... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEWBv...eature=related

There's nothing that says a Supra engine has to go in a Supra, much like no-one says that an LS1 should only go in a 4th gen F-body (but they should).

Any engine could be swapped into any car...

 

all i need to watch is the first one and fell in love
i love the mechanics of anything! be it a escalator a 350 ls1 or a h22 anything there amazing to me, to disrespect a motor or engine that is nonscense to me how ever when its a nice car like the camero with the 2jz with amazing custom monds tha t never seen before nothing kills it more then a over ego'd big headed know it all that steps out and makes me look away

so dont hate the car hate the drivers

 

I hate all rice equally

 

I think that dispacement + forced induction works pretty well. i don't see why they have to be mutually exclusive. Look at what INTIMIDTOR Z is doing with his car. 4.8L V8 (293ci) with a single turbo, mostly stock internals, could be puting close to 500 or 600bhp (not sure which).

Check out his build thread. https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/ltx-...urbo-4-8l.html

 

Give me a 2jz and I will stick it in a 3rd gen.