Really?? I didnt know that.

I wasnt looking at knock count I was looking at the retard. And man does it get up there. I guess Ill take it for a spin and see if it knocks?

 

thats why i suggested reducing burst knock retard, maybe 10* max for now. look at the knock counts, if its only a couple during downshift you should be ok. plug the timing back in and see what happends


illl get a datalog of my car later and show you it produces knock, i need to do some tuning today anyway. might even get a vid

 

Listen to this video///wtf is that chatter, its only in 1st gear, 2nd gear but not in D OD N or R. I did this video with the e-brake on and pedding the gas. Please help me!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hT7o...ature=youtu.be

It didnt do this before i put the converter in..all i did was reset the TV and put the converter in.

I just re-checked the tranny fluid its about 1/2 inch higher then the top of the xxxxx marks. The car was 180 temp and in N and in P and same result. I hope I didnt mess something up in there. Ill go try to take some of the fluid out.

 

Get under there and make sure all the torque converter to flywheel bolts are tight and the bellhousing bolts also.

 

I did that earlier and everything checked out, even the dustplate.

I did take some tranny fluid out as it was over full. About 1qt..opps. The wineing did go down a little but is still there.

It only does it in 1st and 2nd and you have to get on it with the e-brake on to really hear it. The bast way to explain it is..it sorta sounds like a supercharger wine or noisy timing gears. But it does not make this sound in Drive at any point, or any other gear.

Ill take it down the road in a but when the laptop is powered up. The weird thing is that it doesnt show KR when its chattering/wining at low rpms, just really high ones.

I hope I didnt mess up that trans. I probly drove it 20 miles with it overfull like that.

Let me add that the tranny shifts nice and smooth as it always had, I dont ever hear that wineing when Im actualy driveing it in D. The old tranny fluid wasnt burnt.

 

Did you use thread lock on the bolts, what did you torque them down to...?

 

I did use thread lock, I went back through them earlier and they are tight!

Heres what I based the numbers off of and believe me there tight. I did torqed them another 1/8 turn or so past those #'s The bolts didnt break so i mustof not tightened them too much.

driveplate-to-converter: 35 ft/lbs
trans-to-engine bolts: 30 ft/lbs

 

sounds like the flexplate is rubbing on something. when did you hear the noise, before you put the converter on there?

or this maybe?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBzrjrUyfKY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUKj4KDKV24

 

It only makes that whine when I manually put it into 1st and 2nd gears on my car.

I just read this (Problem: Transmission seems noisy when moving in 1st and Reverse, noise goes away instantly if you shift to N or the Transmission goes into 3rd gear
Symptoms: Reaction planetary is worn out due to high miles or insufficient lubrication. Not a critical failure, but not a good sign either.
Possible repair: Remove & replace or rebuild sooner rather than later.)

What is reaction planetary?

 

Can you get a camera under there during idle and revs, like this...?

 

Did it make this noise after you installed the new torque converter, or after you installed the new transmission mount?

 

Yea rob I can, it sounds like that but like i said in 1st and 2nd only
Did you see this vid. Its just the sound though
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hT7o8cUlXk

 

Im really not sure when it started as I rarely put it into 1 or second manually. But I do remember hearing it when I manually put it though the gears when I first had it on jack stands and was adding tranny fluid right after the new conv. was in it.

 

It's hard to tell from the video, but once your down there we can get a better view of what's going on. By the way, did you remove the catalytic converter w/shield during this build, or are you still running them...?

 

I took off the cat. converter but the sheilds still there.

Right now im going to go out and remove the dust pan those sheilds then video tape it. Ill be back on here in a bit with a video. This stuff worries me as im not sure if its been doing this along time ago or not, as I cant remember the last time I manually shifted the car in 1st 2nd.

Heres a better audio video of the clatter.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCJgP...ature=youtu.be

Ill be back on in 30 min with the one from under the car.

 

Rear reaction planetary hub. If you never, or rarely downshifted like that, then that noise could have been like that this whole entire time...

 

Ok well I took a video and here it is, you can hear it alot more on the camera. Its not nearly as loud as it is in the video.

The light light clatter(that you cant hear in the car) is in R D and OD that loud stuff is in 1st and 2nd, I sure wish I knew If it ever did this before?

It also cut off short, the camera batt died.
Thanks for any help. Im outa time for the night, so Ill have to wait till later on in the week to get this fixed or at least tune it so theres no KR. I just dont want the tranny to go BANG at the track.

Under the car.. looking at FW...TC http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkYyC...ature=youtu.be

And remember that this is how loud all that is when your not 1ft from the thing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCJgPmlCzNc

 

speakers on my computer suck but is it a rattle or a whine/buzz

if its a whine/buzz more then likley its front pump whine, mine used to do the same thing

 

Dave it sorta chatters, but whines as you raise the RPMs.

What do you think the prob is Rob?

 

nm those new videos i can hear it, that sounds just like when i broke my flexplate but thats not ur probolem as it would make that sound no matter what gear u were in.

when u installed the new converter did u get it to fully seat into the transmission? it should engage once then u turn it while pushing in and it will engage a second time

if u did id say theres somethng wrong with that converter

 

That converter is all the way in there, actually there was Id say a 1/2 inch gap between the conv and the Flex plate when I installed it so the bolts pulled it back up to the flex plate.

 

Now that I think of it that gap could be binding the pump tangs?? It was roughly 3/8" to a 1/2" at the max

 

I didnt take this pic but this is about the gap I had, this is a pic off of this site.

 

thats normal, any transmisiin converter will have a gap before u tighten up the converter bolts, usually about 1/4-3/8s gap between the flexplate and converter.

i would pull the trans install the stock converter and see if it still does it, when u pull the trans inspect the flexplate carefully for cracks, i have broken more then one flexplate
i feel ur pain though my iroc is down due to a chewed up flexplate,teeth are so chewed up the starter barley engages the flexplate to turn the motor over, so in the next week or so ill be droping my transmission to install a new sfi flexplate and man taking off those flexplate to crank bolts without airtools is going to suck big time

not to mention my new driveway is stone,instead of concrette

 

stock conv. is gone.. core charge

 

The gap is normal, it helps account for a bit of expansion of the torque converter, the engagement of the front pump, and the piloting of the snout in the crankshaft. You might have a bad converter from Advanced, order a replacement, and bring that one back...

 

You guys sure? If so Ill take it back and take the tranny out again even though its a complete PITA.

 

i posted the videos on my local forums since we have a few smart trans guys on here to see what they say and ill post them on one other site and see what they say but i really do think the converter is no good

 

It is the only way to be sure. When you got your hands on this one from Advanced Auto you immediately felt like the converter had something wrong with it because it was making noise when you would shake it. My TCI-3500 stall speed made similar noise when shaken, but not when it was installed. I had the same gap when I installed my converter as well, the bolts "tug" the converter back out to align it with the flexplate. That is normal, but that noise is not. Just to confirm, you filled the converter with fluid before installing it, correct...?

 

If you do pull the trans, make sure the flexplate bolts are all tight, and that the flexplate itself is not cracked. My buddy with a 2.8 s10 had the same thing happen and it was a bad flexplate, the bolts came loose, then egged out the bolt holes, eventually cracked the flexplate.

 

Yes I put fluid in there, at least 1 1/2 qts. I just kept adding it till it didnt wana take any more.
I did notice the old converter rattled once I drained the fluid.

I looked over the flexplate well and no cracks that I could see. The only thing that worries me is that I have no idea how long its made this sound. I never really run it manually in 1st or 2nd but ill call advanced auto in the morning and ask them about this(replacing it)

 

sounds like something is rubbing? id pull the trans again and inspect that flexplate. stockers dont like much more than stockish power levels before they start to crack.

 

I just invited Dana from Pro Built Automatics to this thread, he is without a doubt the man when it comes to 700R4's, so hopefully he will chime in soon as I don't want you damaging anything from this point forward so be patient and wait until he gets here. In the mean time, order a replacement in the morning anyway...

 

Ok guys thanks so much for the help on this. I dont want to damage anything either.

Ill be back on in a bit, Ill got get the garage shut down for the night.

Ill call Advanced in the morning and tell them it rattles and such, and get a replacement asap.

 

this is what about 250hp did to my factory original flexplate


it made the same dam noise as urs but did it all the time, i was in toms river nj about 60 miles away from home when we found out it was broke , i still maged to drive the care the 60 miles back home like that the only thing that kept the car going is were that section on the center is broken outward was still catching on the rest of the flexplate to spin it


if urs was broke u would see it wobbling but that dont mean there aint a crack in yours

 

... neutral drops?

 

we never nutral droped the v6 car ever,

that all got saved for my 2.2L fwd dodge shadow, and even still i never broke a flexplate in that car, did snap a few input/ output shafts in that transmission though lmao
not to mention a shitton of axles though we could swap out axles in about 45 mins at the track

 

i remember when i converted my hotair buick to intercooled with a PT54 turbo and broke the tranny and flexplate pretty much at the same time lol.

 

I had a tranny guy just tell me that the line pressure is alot higher in 1st and 2nd gear when you manualy put it there. And that the TV could be too tight?? I reset it like I was suppose to/I can recheck it I guess. Any ideas there.

 

its possible to high of a presure could striand the pump and cause the buzz/whine sound

 

Remember this logg? This is when I first adjusted the TV cable the not so right way and see that there is bascally little or no KR and I bet that little is from the tranny mount. But anyways, look at the end of the log and how the RPMs modulate at 94Mph and up... any ideas why its doing that?

But now i cant even go WOT to 30mph without 10* of KR

I did go out a few min ago and adjusted the TV to be all the way in, and that chatter was so much louder in all the gears. So then I adjusted it back to it was so its only chattery/whineing in 1st and 2nd and called it a night. Dammmm same that this is happening 5 days before the first race at the track.

 

Spoke with Dana, this is what he had to say regarding the converter...;

"The flex plate to torque converter clearance should be .080" - .125" . More than this will wear the rotor and the torque converter hub, and way more than this can break the rotor in the front pump. Reduce the clearance then reset the TV cable correctly again. It should be tight at WOT. Go from here and give me a call in the afternoon if you need further assistance

Dana 909-795-1876"...

Mark, give him a call and tell him exactly what you are feeling...

 

The new converter will be here in a day or 2 again. And I hope to fix the problem this time arround of at least see what all I messed up.

Dana its amazing how much you know about trans. and there componets. The reason I "though" it could be the converter is this paragraph I read last night.

(Here's the paragraph
"Torque Converters...
Torque converter noises are easy to isolate. Since the entire converter (pump, turbine and stator) turns while the transmission is in park and neutral, a converter noise will go away in those ranges. When the transmission is in gear and the drive wheels are stationary, the turbine in the torque converter doesn't spin, because the turbine shaft is stationary. This is when the bearing between the turbine and main housing of the converter is working. If the noise is there only in gear with the drive wheels stationary and goes away in neutral, suspect the torque converter. There is an exception with the AOD transmission. The direct drum of an AOD is always turning while the engine is running. For this reason, a torque converter noise can be easily confused with the noise made by one of the direct drum bearings.
Tip: A torque converter noise will get quieter as the drive wheels begin rolling slowly from a stop."


Here's the videos Dana if you get a chance. Thank you very much for the help and advice! Also Dana I forgot to tell you i'm not 100% positive this problem happend after the converter was installed. I just noticed it now because I was searching for false spark knock. Rarely do I ever put the car in 1st or second gear manually. Thanks again!

 

I got the tranny out again, took about 1 1/2 hrs so it went somewhat fast. I couldn't see anything that looked wrong from just taking a good visual from the trans, and the parts you can see.

That clearence between the TC and the Flex plate was not as much as I thought. It was exactly 1/4 of a inch when the converter was pushed all the way into the tranny. Thats 0.25". I though it was alot more then that but I guess looking at it the other day, i just guessed on the size was more then I though. Still thats over the 0.125 that was suppose to be there at the max. The tranny fluid didn't have any metal shavings in it. Tranny fluid was not burnt either as thats a smell I'll never forget. That burnt stuff stink!! Also all the spline that I could see on the tranny input shaft was fine. Anything else I should look at. Also the flex plate is in fine shape.

 

sounds like the converter was just bad,my converter buzzed a lil bit like yours but not as much so id say as long as its not as loud as the one ur pulling out u should be good

 

I hope thats the case dave! I really really do!

 

I just went out and checked the fluid from the converter I took out yeaterday, I drained it out last night, and it seems to have a glittery shine to it. No chunks of metal or anything, but more like glitter, mabey bronze or copper? I can only see the glitter when I shine a flashlight into it.

Anyone know what that means? What in the tranny/converter has something of that meterial in it such as bronze or copper??

 

check the bushing in the front of the pump

 

Can you explain what im suppose to do dave?? I dont wana mess anything up.

Just go out and look at it??

 

yeah pretty much just chine a flashlight in by the input shaft on the transmission, there is a bearing in the front of the pump, looks just like a cam bearing thats pressed in there. it should be silver colored if u see bronze on it it needs to be preplaced, its what the snout of the conveter rides on

if it needs to be replaced its only a few bucks