I'd say you're probably right.
The mill is smooth, and pulls hard, so I haven't worried about it.
The only place I'm not real happy, is at idle where the injector DC gets below 1 percent.
I can live with it, though I know a vac FPR could fix it. ( even though my friends compliment how smooth it is at idle, considering the cam )

 

Would I need to change my inj offsets with my new injectors? I installed siemens Deka 9267 36# injectors. Would I be able to get or find offsets for these? Could not changing the offsets when I installed them cause my be tabes to look like they do? (Shown above)

 

i can definitely see your point, if it runs right and fueling seems to be consistent/in line then it's more a "cosmetic" issue of hiding the injector offsets in the VE tables, no? that one blueprint 355 camaro from a friend has a similar table..

i have a problem with heat soak on that car btw. it's a stock MAF car converted to MPFI-SD with an EBL Flash, i relocated the metal-style IAT from the HSR plenum to the plastic collector duct after the air filters (camaro intake style.. think that's the V6 stock position?).
IAT reads a little lower across the board now of course, but i now get a similar heat soak problem because it's right above the radiator shroud. I'm using an LT1/LS1 style IAT btw.
when i shut it down with an IAT reading of 20 degrees C, and let it sit for some 10 minutes, after that it will read 35 or therebouts and it takes some minutes of driving to get it back to the actual air temperature. of course it's running lean in those situations, and so far this tune is still OL so it's thrown off quite a bit.

i'm thinking about 3 options. 1) insulating the spot where it sits in this plastic collector from below radiator heat. 2) relocating it into the ducting before/around the air filter elements. 3) relocating it to the duct before the TB - not sure if there's less heat soak but it sh-/would give a more realistic reading of air temp.
any inputs on that is appreciated..

 

For me, and because it seems to me that an intake air temp should be reading the air that is intaking into the engine, and because it's use is to obtain a correct calculation of how much fuel to add to the air to get the proper mix density, I use the plastic bird cage sensor, and have it mounted in the TBI about 1/2 inch above the injector nozzles.

The way I figure it, there shouldn't be much difference between hanging the thing in the grill somewhere, or where I did, but I don't know that with certainty under all conditions. Where I put it is definitely measuring intake air as it's being intaked, and as close as I can get to the point where it's getting mixed with fuel, so *should* reflect anything I might be missing at any other point in the system. Or, so I figure.

In order to get a proper AFR, we need to know a few things.
We need to know the desired AFR. The O2 sensor can tell us by how much we missed the target, quite accurately.
We need to know how much air by weight and not by volume we are ingesting.
Since we can't easily measure air by weight, we extrapolate that number from volume, reflected in the VE table based on MAP vs RPM and displacement, and the density of that air, which we extrapolate from the temperature, as reflected by the IAT sensor. ( and also to some extent, the water jacket temperature, because that density changes when the air gets into the hot/cold cylinders )

It's easy to think that VE represents fueling, but it does no such thing, directly.
VE represents the efficiency of our engine as a simple air pump, giving us a gross estimate of the amount of air it pumps at specific RPM and MAP vs what it's capable of under ideal conditions. MAP being determined primarily by throttle position and RPM and that efficiency.
EBL, which is why it's both a joy and a curse, gives us the tools to further refine the gross estimates of both air and fuel, and allows us to fine tune many things, in hopes of obtaining the perfect AFR mix at all possible variants in the operating conditions in which we expect to find our ( hopefully ) happy little prime mover, our engine.
For me, like I suspect many of us, I'm happy with a certain range of compensating errors in my tune, so long as the engine is happy. That's also likely why some of us do things a little differently, and why some of us can be content with one or another aspect that appears less than perfect on the surface of it.
My VE table ( posted earlier ) is not a perfect representation of the air my mill pumps.
It contains errors, that are offset by other errors elsewhere in the tune. Injector offsets can be but one of them. Proportional gains, another. AE, DE, and PE still more. By the time EBL is done thinking, and actually send the signal to the injector, hopefully all of those errors have washed out, and we get the right amount of gasoline to atomize with the incoming air, and distribute properly to the correct cylinder, to see a happy reading sent back by the O2 sensor after the fact.
What the O2 sensor tells us is also affected by ignition, but I've rambled enough for now.

 

I thought they are published by the mfg?

fuel injector connection .com may have them? They are helpful to the diy community.

Also i recall them being placed into a thread maybe at corvette forum? A list of # and mfg....

 

I am currently searching around for them. Hoping to find them, I know mine are off because I am having pesky alternator issues where my connector is plugged in but not charging once every couple weeks until I wiggle it. My car runs really lean when this happens.

 

Maybe somewhat unrelated to current conversation....

I wonder if when using a VAFPR if the BPC was incorrect at a specific VAC would it not skew all the values for say 1200-2000 in table #1 for that VAC axis? And same for VE table #2 at 2000-5000 rpms. IOW you might see a hump at the RPM range for a specific VAC if not accurrate. I calculated my BPC using RBobs calculator rather than calibrate my Aeromotive VAFPR for what it really is using a MightyVac as is recommended.

 

I am using a stock regulator modified to be external mount....Tuned Performance made it for me. It has a vacuum line going to it. But on my EBL Utility the port injection greys out the vac referenced button? My BPC are all at 200 right now.

 

supposedly the inj offsets will preclude that from happening.

 

that brisk ending line really got me laughing however i agree with your approach and while knowing most of the speed density related stuff you recaptured, it's always good to go through it again once in a while to see whether you've been missing something all the time

anyways, on the IAT.. i actually looked through this thread and found your input on IAT location etc some pages back. for the TBI system, i guess that location makes perfect sense. not sure if this is the way to go on an MPFI system tho. the problem i'm experiencing anyways is that "hanging it in the grill" would get rid of any and all heat soak problems (of the sensor). but then again, i might run into trouble because the heating of the air until reaching the chamber can't be modelled correctly or not correctly enough.

i'm still a bit stumped that this sensor style i'm using here is so susceptible to heat soak, or heat radiated by the (pun-unintended) radiator that is directly beneath it.. i would think the newer LTx/LSx plastic sensors would be even more resistant against heat soak than the older bird cage IAT?

 

I'd hope not !
The faster and the more susceptible the sensor is, the more accurately it can represent the instantaneous temperature of the air crossing it.

For me, I'd do what I could to get the sensor as close as practical to the injectors, so that it sees the same air that the injectors see. Somewhere in the intake tract. With port injection, it could even be after the throttle body, since it wouldn't be subject to evaporative cooling by being sprayed with fuel.

What you are probably seeing, isn't so much heat soak directly, but the temp of the air as a result of heat radiated by the radiator. Possibly some direct "infra red" also affecting the sensor. Heat soak implying that the sensor is reporting its own temperature, as a result of the sensor itself being heated. If that's the case, then thermal inertia is not your friend !
Easy enough to test. How fast does the sensor report change if you put a draft on it ?

 

still running the EBL flash i see, Damn i wish i never sold it.

 

I am indeed, never looked back!

Continuing with my tune, today after reading several pages of this thread I found a very helpful description on IAC and stalling that Bob posted on page 2. My car has been prone to a drop in rpms below commanded idle when I push my clutch in to come to a stop. I reset my idle adjustment as per instructions and now my car seems to do a lot better in regards to the rpm "stumble" when pushing the clutch in to come to a stop.

The only side affect, is that now the "hanging" rpms that I experienced when shifting are even worse. Before the rpms would hang and then drop below idle speed then come up to idle. Now they hang longer and slightly higher then go down to idle speed. Do I need to adjust the TF decay filters, or the minimum idle steps to have the rpms not hang like they do?

 

That's a good point with the thermal inertia. I would need/want the sensor to have a dynamic response to a delta in the temperature of the airflow passing by, so it would need a low thermal inertia to quickly pick up those changes. But I think it should be designed in a way to make its affect from heat soak (radiated heat) way smaller than the effect from air passing by, IOW still a requirement for low thermal inertia and a lot of surface area for thermal transfer from airflow?

I think what we have here is the issue that the air that is coming in isn't heated as much as the sensor. So the sensor is giving false results. Heck, I'm actually pretty sure that's what we have here. Every time i let it set for some minutes to check the tune and re-flash, IATs go up like 10-20° and it's lean by anywhere from .5-1.0 AFR from what it was running before. It needs about 3-4 minutes of driving to get the IAT to where it was before and to get the AFRs stable again (as said I'm running OL with this now).

took this pic from another thread, i'm running the IAT like this now, in the ducting just over the radiator shroud, i think the V6 camaros were running it there also:



p.s. as said i'm running a newer style IAT that from the looks would have even less of or the same thermal inertia than the bird cage variants. also the HSR, afaik, is a non heated manifold and also the TB is not heated. so therefore i would think the IAT has a bigger impact on the fueling equation, i might have to work the IAT/CTS blend filter some anyways. but if the IAT sensor is off (when restarting a warm engine), what point does it make?

 

Sounds like an Rbob question to me !

 

Well warmer weather is here, for a few days. And with that brings warmer IAT readings/heat soak. With the FIRST plenum that I have, there isn't a spot for the IAT (MAT) sensor to go. I have been left with just having the sensor hanging near the plenum in open air. That was fine when it was cold out.

Until today, I drove to class which is about 20mins away. Was there for maybe an hour tops. Went back outside started the car up after reflashing my new tune in that I got from the data log on the way there. Start it up and it is running really lean, like upper 16-17 lean. I take a look at my IAT reading and its at 130*F when engine temp was around 170*F. So I make my way out of the parking lot (running without popping even at those supposed WB readings but still can tell its lean). I get on the highway and look at my IAT reading again and I am below a 100* and dropping. Think it ended up going down to 70* until I got into stop and go traffic in town. Was at 90* when I was parking at work. It richened up and was fine down the highway.

Now part of the lean at idle I believe was my VE table from the learn I did. But I know that my IAT/CTS blend had a big role in it going lean. Is there a way to lessen the effect it has on fueling? Right now I have it at 0 across the board. So the IAT is the one in control. The real sucky thing is that I thought I was datalogging on my way back from work, get to work and go to end the datalog and sure enough I didn't turn it on...

 

Cannot drill/tap the plenum? Mine is not a bird cage. I ordered IAT for a 92 camaro and it is threaded...

 

Mine is basically the same sensor as the CTS sensor. I think I am going to extend the harness and get a bird cage that will mount on my filter on the throttle body. Maybe.....I don't like the setup I have with air filter/battery location. My battery is on the passenger side with a 4th gen coolant tank right below it. Technically it "should" be on the drivers side with a air intake going to the passenger side.

For now, as a test, I put the IAT kindve in between the cowl of my ram air hood and the vents around the wipers. Kindve in open air but you have to look for it to see it so its not out in the open. I will see what happens there.

 

201423.zip

Also as previously promised, here is a datalog of a semi recent tune. This was my drive TO school this morning. If anyone could take a glance at this and see if they notice anything out of wack completely that would be great. Don't have to necessarily go through the whole thing cause its a 20ish min drive. The main concern that has stumped me is very light throttle leanness and going lean on light shifts. It seems to not activate AE on some shifts resulting in it being lean as I continue into the throttle on a shift. If you look at 1:45 early on in the log you can see that happen.

 

I have a fuel pressure regulator question. On the 292 we're thinking of adding a turbo. Let's say it's putting out about 200hp now and we are targeting 300hp. It has the stock regulator on it now (about 14psi) and I know it'll want a vAFPR (and I know EBL will handle the calibration of this regulator). I guess we need to gain 1psi of fuel pressure for each psi of boost as a minimum, and possibly more depending on the injector size. It's got the L05 61 lb/hr injectors now. These injectors should be able to support 300hp worth of fuel at 40psi, but that's at atmospheric. If it takes 8psi to make that 300hp, we'd need 48psi. Is that a sign we need to run bigger injectors?

What is the current go-to vAFPR? I know GM discontinued the marine regulator. Do we just bypass that and spend the coin for an external? If so, how do you bypass the internal regulator? Just remove the spring?

I also think we need the regulator to back off to ~15psi at idle. That seems like an awfully wide range. Or maybe the solution is another set of injectors that has a wider range of available pulse widths (i.e. something that has a smaller min pulse width of the stock injector).

 

My calculator shows 75 lbs injectors(2560) at 30 lbs FP will support 430 HP non boost and 524 with boost at 200kpa at 44.5 fuel pressure.
Aeromotive 13301 with the 20-60 lbs TPI spring.

 

Missed this post, on the shift the MAP increases quite a bit. Can use more MAP AE to help cover for fuel. In the log the dMAP is in the 0 - 12.5 KPa area.

Can increase the AE MAP PW in the 10 and 20 KPa entries. May need to remove a little from the AE TPS PW table to compensate. Note that the dTPS during this time was minimal.

RBob.

 

Would I be correct that this will be a blow-through set up? To support 300 HP at .50 BSFC, need 28 psi of fuel pressure. With the stock FPR the boost will cause the fuel pressure to increase 1:1. They won't flow more fuel, just match the level of boost so that the injector flow stays the same.

With 28 psi of fuel pressure it is best to go with a VRFPR. The Aeromotive 13301 is a decent choice. Best to use a block-off plate in place of the stock FPR. Can cut the center out of the diaphragm and use the outer piece as a gasket.

Plumb the FPR vacuum port to the plenum. Set up the BPC vs VAC table for a VRFPR. Set up the BPC vs Boost table as non-vacuum referenced.

RBob.

 

I used a calculator that showed we need 40psi at atmospheric pressure to make 300hp with a 0.55 BSFC and 80% DC on a 61 lb/hr injector. At idle that regulator would theoretically drop fuel pressure to 30psi. My original concern was would there be significant low PW drivability problems with 61 lb/hr injectors @ 30psi on a 200hp engine (considering it's at 14psi now with the same injectors)? Or did I do something wrong with the calculator?

 

Yeah blow-through (lots of issues to work through, like sealing around the TBI but one thing at a time).

Roger on the EBL vacuum/boost reference settings. Makes perfect sense. 1:1 pressure climb in boost only maintains the injector flow rate, so EBL doesn't need to do anything in boost. But the vacuum reference still matters because the injectors sit above the throttle blades. In other words, the range of pressures the injectors see is atmospheric to whatever boost pressure is. They never see anything below atmospheric, theoretically. Down in the weeds, I could expect a few kPa of vacuum at the injectors with a naturally aspirated setup and a restricted air cleaner...

I recalculated to 33psi if we allow an 85% DC (may be OK @ only 5000 rpm). Still 0.55 BSFC (no idea about that but I know to increase for FI). 33 is better as that should relax to maybe 23psi at idle (maybe 25?). I'll be in async at idle and maybe even cruise though. Or not?

 

On the calc I used 85% DC and .5 BSFC. Using .55 BSFC is OK, as we are just ball-parking the numbers. The actual BSFC will depend upon how rich you run the engine when in boost.

I would eliminate the low PW async mode (zero the two values in the table). And, will need to increase the injector offset table. They take a little longer to open when the fuel pressure goes up.

RBob.

 

I figure 11 to 11.5 on E10 is about as lean as it should be.

Eliminate it? I thought the whole point of async was to handle situations where the sync pulsewidth is below the capability of the injectors. And I thought the big TBI injectors could do maybe 0.9ms before becoming unstable. Assuming all that is correct, how does it work if it wants a 0.7ms PW? Does it just wait out that injection cycle and add the PW to the next one? And is that really better than async? Maybe I'm confused about what you were saying.

Either way, it seemed like a 292 is a fairly small engine (compared to V8s) and probably makes around 200hp now. I should check idle PWs and I guess we could figure out what would happen to the PW with another 10psi of fuel pressure.

EDIT: I checked a log and it already gets down to 1.1 to 1.2 under 30-40kPa (excluding overrun conditions). Should I be worried about min PW if it ends up with a low-20s psi fuel pressure at idle (with a vAFPR)?

 

For reasons not totally clear to me I believe asynch for idle does not work very well. For PE it was said it works well. My personal experience was when in asynch idle quality was very poor. I ended up going idle OL and never revisited CL idle. BUT the PW was like 1.7 but 14.0/1 A/F and stable. 75 lb injs at 20 lbs FP.

 

You know it may be that async works really badly on dual plane intakes but alright on single plane. I remember I screwed up the async settings and I think one of the flashes was entirely async. The truck drove alright actually. And the idle was also alright. So I'm not afraid of async as much as I'm afraid that it'll be trying to idle at 0.7ms, and if that PW pushed to async, it wouldn't be enough regular pulses to keep the engine smooth at idle.

I may be making a big deal out of nothing. I guess the next step is to get that Aeromotive regulator, block off the stock FPR and retune for the new regulator.

We could always do a fatter OL idle, which would help I guess.

 

I thought asynch is a default when synch cannot be accomplished? maybe you never needed asynch so it did not go asynch...

 

Well it is. Either the PW is below the min sync PW (which should be set slightly above the point of instability, though others may have different opinions), or there is so much fuel demand (like AE) that it needs to use async as a way to get more fuel in the engine. What's kind of weird, I guess, is that the max PW setting is just one number. It would make some sense for it to go into async at 100% DC, but smarter folks than I have probably worked all that out already.

Also I was saying that since this engine has a single plane intake, maybe async works alright (or that has nothing to do with it). I mean, I can confirm that it seems to drive alright with async. In which case I'm definitely making much ado about nothing.

But yeah, the plan of action is to get the 13301 regulator, block off plate, install the low pressure spring and dial in the same 14psi as the stock regulator is now. Then I'll meet up, set it to maybe 30 psi with no vacuum and retune as necessary. Then if that works out alright, end to end, set it back to 14 psi until the turbo is selected, plumbed, etc. I guess I'd use the lowest fuel pressure necessary to stay below 90% DC.

 

I'll confirm RBob's suggestion. 13301 is superb FPR.

I was just little unlucky that its stock diaphragm was faulty and rubber eroded soon after install, started to leak fuel from vacuum port... after lengthy dialog with Aeromotive they sent me new diaphragm assembly free under warranty... they didn't beliveve that I bought it from Amazon.com.

Since installing new assembly FPR has been working extremely well, all times feeding E85 FlexFuel. Mounted pressure gauge to one of its port and it keeps pressure stable without any pulsing or so. More than year worth of daily driving without any issues.

Initially used it with without vacuum line with stock TBI ECM, when converted to EBL then with vacuum connected and with proper calibration. Oddly enough my idle is quite good despite my Comp Cams XE262H and 30 psi baseline fuel pressure.

That's how I modified my TBI FPR. Cut stock stainless return line near EGR, removed EGR, mounted Aeromotive to its place and using matching fittings and some minor bending plumbing is done.

Might have photo somewhere...

 

may be max PW setting is to allow asynch at 85% rather than 100%. You can witness 85% in your logs then set it accordingly. I think 90% is on ragged edge. I believe I have asynch disabled totally.

 

The reason for the max async PW value is to prevent an overrun. Async fuel is done every 12.5 msec's. If a value greater then that (minus compensations) is programmed into the hardware, it could get truncated the next time through (12.5 msec later).

So what is done is to limit the maximum programmed async PW, and save the remainder for the next loop. That remainder is added to the new loop's required async PW.

RBob.

 

I'M BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACK!!!!! I'M BACK IN THE SADDLE AGAIN!!!! I'M BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACK!!!!!!!!! Just finished my order for my Ebl flash!!!!! This is my 2nd unit im buying but i will NOT be selling this one!!!!! I feel like a child on christmas eve awaiting my presents!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Cant wait to get into tuning with you guys again!!

 

I need to get 2 more myself... one for the Fiero and one for whenever I put EFI on the Malibu.

 

When tuning the AE tables is it common to make changes to to each table across the board say add or reduce all rows by 25% or is AE really that touchy that it requires fine tuning in each row. I guess it really depends on how much of a perfectionist you are and the engine being driven by the EBL but is this generally the case or must I take the time to adjust all rows for each given scenario?

 

When roughing in the AE it is common to change all entries in the tables. Only once it is close do one or several more rows at a time get changed.

AE on TBI isn't nearly as touchy as port injected AE. The reason is that with TBI the intake manifold acts like a big capacitor and smooths out the AE.

RBob.

 

Getting my Ebl unit tomorrow!!! Super excited. First things first; a couple VE learns!!!!

Shout out to Rbob again for great customer service, this guy replies to any e-mail you shoot his way and doesnt act like your a waste of his time..... like some others who sell there items on here..... Thanks!!!

 

I need some help today guys ... I been running open loop tune doin web learns ... I have a 4 hr drive today and need to k ow how to set everything up for best mpg like lean cruise mode etc ... I really don't remember how to put it all back to closed loop and do blm learns ... but can I run lean cruise with open loop tune ? Thanks

91' bird 305 TBI T-5, trick flow heads, 4.10 gears, full UMI setup, track times coming soon!

 

Still on the first cup of coffee, but I'll give it a go. You can run lean cruise in open loop mode, need to set this flag:

Option Word 4 - Bit 0 - OpHwy

Be sure to check the highway CTS & MPH parameters as they may have been set high to disable it.

HiWy - Min Coolant (60* C)
HiWy - Min MPH (50 MPH)

To enable closed loop check this parameter:

Closed Loop - CTS Threshold (48* C is stock)

That is the one that is most commonly used to disable closed loop. It is better to run closed loop then open for best mileage.

Also, check that the Min/Max INT & BLM are not set to 128:

BLM - Max/Min BLM (172/108 is stock)
INT - Min/Max INT (40/158 is stock)

Note how the orders are reversed from each other in these parameters.

The above are the most common changes that folks make, there may be others.

RBob.

 

only got to do 3 VE learns today... MAJOR changes across the board.

 

Thanks ! ... I enabled open loop lean cruise for the drive ... and I drove 247 miles and used exactly 3/4 tank ! .... remember I'm running 4.10 gears here.. if anything happens to the rearend IMA go with 3.73's and I believe I would b knocking on 30mpg easily

91' bird 305 TBI T-5, trick flow heads, 4.10 gears, full UMI setup, track times coming soon!

 

Something is up with my tune on cold starts. Ok my car has been messed up to where it doesn't automatically hold open the throttle (or choke what ever it's cslled) on cold starts. So I have to manually open throttle BARELY (WUD on ebl doesn't even register 1%) and it would start and I could then let my foot of the gas after 15seconds and it would be fine. The ebl is a different story. Have done two cold starts so far and both have been very rough. I have to hold my foot at the same position for about a minute or so for the motor to get going. At first it sounds like it's missing or something and sounds very rough and then after awhile it finally starts to sound normal. What parameters should I look at first to help this? Once the motor has been running for a minute or so with my foot at 1% TPS it runs fine.

It didn't do this on stock ecm

 

Well, you recently posted that the VE Learn has been making major changes. Other then that I have nothing to go by.

What is the IAC steps on a warm idle with no other loads?

Has the VE Learns been changing the idle & warm up idle areas?

Is it chugging (too rich)? Or does it have a tendency to surge and die (too lean) if the throttle isn't held open a smidgen?

RBob.

 

I'll update the IAC count in 10minutes( bout to take it back to work, on lunch) i did notice both cold starts were at 0 IAC count.

Yes VE HAS been learning the Idle area very well, but after my 3 BIG ve learns yesterday, i cold started today and it felt the same (as it was when i first started EBL for first time, it was a cold start) BUT, once warm the idle ( and the rest of the powerband) feels GREAT only after a handle full of VE Learns!!! What could affect it only on cold starts?

It will die from being too lean some times. Im still running the 305 injectors on the 350, i have a 65PPH injector pod(verified by injector p/n#) pulled from PnP, maybe i should just throw it on. Too lean??

Also, i noticed on my starter BIN, BIN#2017, the Injector flow rate is set at 65, i thought the 305 was 55?

 

hwat? ^^
i guess that's a generic statement and not including the open loop lean cruise mode..

Ghettobird52, looks like you need to sort out the fueling first, otherwise all the fueling will be off i would guess - VE can be learned to correct, but the other modifieres (crank, coolant / intake temp, ...) would be off i think? or is your engine modded out? we need more info

 

Is this running or at key-on, engine-off? Either way it shouldn't be at zero. On a cold start with key-on, engine-off the IAC steps should be in the 100 to 145 range. See this table:

IAC - Powerup Init Steps

If the IAC goes to 0 right after at cold start, then either the throttle blades are open too far or there is a vacuum leak.

At start up there is choke AFR to make it richer. This lasts for a short period of time, as short as 20 seconds on a warm engine and as long as 2 - 3 minutes on a really cold engine start.

During open loop the AFR is adjusted according to engine coolant temperature:

Open Loop - AFR Multiplier vs CTS

When does the engine die?

The fueling calculation for injector flow and engine displacement uses this table:

BPC - BPC vs VAC

Which is set up for a 305 & 55 #/hr injectors. The EBL Utility can be used to calculate the table values. Which will also be nearly the same with a 350 and 61 #/hr injectors (it is all in the ratios).

As for the injector flow rate being set for 65 #/hr, yes, the digital-dash value is at 65 #/hr. But unless you have a TBI Crossfire Corvette, or one of the few digital dash Firebirds with TPI, it isn't used at all. Even at that, the ECM doesn't use it:

DGD - Injector Flow Scalar

Same for the WUD injector flow rate:

INJ - MPG Injector Flow Constant

Only the WUD uses it.

RBob.

 

Here we go...... 350, Bored .060 over, Mild Cam 455Lift (lost card, forgot duration) , 187 casting heads MAJOR port work done, intake valves opened to 1.94, Edelbrock Intake Performer TBI, Jegs "tubular" headers, all under a Stock Throttle body with open element.

Your probably right, it would be smarter to throw the injectors in and work from there i think... i wonder what rbob thinks.....?

Yes that was a cold start engine on.

I think i found my problem, i believe my Throttle body is sticking, TPS sensor Via WUD shows at idle its at 2%, and at a Red light in idle (although TPS shows 2%) IAC is at 4 steps, but im not sure how accurate that is now after seeing the TPS, thats probably my problem with IAC, the throttle blades are staying open just slightly? going to check my TB when i get off work.

The engine will only die if its on a cold start and i do not touch the throttle, other than that she doesnt die at all, Maybe if i try to run out of the driveway in a rush and throw it in reverse when its still cold it will die, but its only when its not warmed up.

Hmm ok ok that makes sense, its only for the MPG/trip data? So when i swap my 65PPH injectors in, dont change anything (other than BPC-BPC Vs VAC), just VE learns? Fuel pressure will be the same at installation and will later on add a adjustable or VAFPR.Quick note; after reviewing my latest bin inside Tuner pro and using your utility tool i noticed my BPC- BPC VS VAC was set at 134, when it should of been 136. I adjusted it. Any effect?

What do you think Rbob, should i attempt to smooth it out myself before throwing the injectors on, or just throw them on?

 

Heres some screen shots of my VE low&high RPM tables, first the stock BIN i started with (BIN_2017) and then after about 10 or so VE Learns. Why does my High RPM table look like its getting worse?