It wont hurt to give it a go. Only issue is fresh air leakage from ext pipe contaminating the A/F. You may see VE table go over 100 as a result. If not then it is not affecting you. Note the graph of main VE table. If a hump at 1400-2000 rpms then it may be polluting the learn.

 

Speaking for myself, you unnerstan ?
I'd make certain I kept a copy of this tune easily accessible, and proceed knowing full well that it may all be for naught, that you may have to come back to now, and do it over.

 

Sure, can always modify tables by hand. Good pointers on CL and hence BLM learn being enables despite AE.. I was just trying to point out to 91rscammie that the BLM VE Learns done by the WUD will not continue during AE etc, while, as you pointed out, it seems the BLM Learns for internal AFR calculation in (well, mostly) closed-loop does

 

Well turned out that my passenger side header to y-pipe connection was starting to come loose. Which was causing the exhaust leak/loudness. I only did one or two learns with it like that and it didn't change anything drastically. So I think I am good there.

I'm still trying to figure out my speedometer issue. I got under there today when I was fixing the exhaust and did the tire turn/drive shaft count and came up with 3 1/4 turns of the drive shaft. So that looks like with the 9 bolt that's in there I have 3.27 gears. I am unsure what VSS gears are in it.

 

Kinda wondering if anyone has the main SA tables and other things that have been changed from a Jet stage two chip for a lo3. I used to have one and it seemed to work somewhat ok for my combo. I would like to compare it to what I have for SA tables etc. Is it possible to get this info.

Also when installing a larger tbi such as I have, had is there anything I should change in my tunning? I have looked around and have not really found anything. I assumed that I don't need to.

 

Along with the previous post, I have some other things that need to be addressed as Rbob, stated to me in a old thread. This was what was stated.

With the EBL it is easy to adjust for the larger injectors. The BPC vs VAC table takes care of 95% of the fueling changes. Then reduce the two AE PW tables by the ratio of the change in injector size.

RBob.

My issue with this is how do I do this exactly before I didn't know exactly what my injectors were flowing but now with what I could figure out with the BPC and VE Learns my injectors are 65lb so I have BPC changed to 109.

How exactly do I do the math to change the two AE PW tables?

Went from stock 55lb injectors to 65lb injectors.

 

This might help - it was just posted two pages back actually, and I'm quite sure many times more before, maybe even has a reference in the Intro to Tuning guide on dynamicefi.com but nevermind we're here to help each other

 

Thanks, sorry I must of looked right over it as I did a search yesterday and was not coming up with the answer. Do I change anything due to having a larger tbi also?

 

Larger TB as in 7.4L. If so yes. air flows easier than fuel so you may find you need more AE than you expect. Dont overlook the AE RPM modifier as you can fine tune it if you need more AE fuel atl ower rpms but not at higher RPMS(over 2400)

 

Ok, thanks yeah I have a bored out stock tbi it is over kill for my set up but I had previously bought it for a different engine build. Not sure yet to needing more AE is there a way to tell? Wouldn't the Ve table compensate if I did enough learns? Also should I be changing some other things seeing I have a 160 thermostat and I run @ 170-172

 

Way to tell? Yes. Just drive car and accellerate briskly. Start from lean and experience a lean pop and work rich. A WB will do same. VE Learn with WB does not work cept for PE Learn.

 

So how do I know what changes to make to AE and where exactly? Is it possible that AE does not need to be changed if I also installed bigger injectors? So I don't need to change anything due to having a 160 thermostat. Seems to me I would as I used to have a chip that supposedly had things changed to run a 160 stat. I still would like to compare a jet stage2 chip to what I have now with ebl.

 

No way be be sure where you need to make changes unless you use a WB with a controller that can log the AE A/F vs MAP AE vs RPM AE vs TPS. and do so at all possible variables for each. IE TPS at 10% you accellerate to TPS 20% or TPS at 10% steady and you climp a 60d incline and it involkes MAP AE from 30 MAP to 60 MAP. It is going to be diff at all possible TPS% MAP value RPM value. Fortunately it will all overlap in your intake. Once you are reasonably close then you can narrow down higher RPM AE vs lower and smaller TPS-AE movement vs a pedal to floor over .01 sec.

Pulling a 3000 lb trailer will allow logs of higher MAP areas. Just kiddin.

Note in analysis the AE use is nicely shown over time

Keep in mind the General calibrates this on a dyno not SOP. The EBL.bins that are provided approximately matching your engine specs are very helpfull. Unfortunately I started with a stock LO3 auto trans(I am stick) and had to do trial and error. But I had a WB and controller with inputs of rpm-map-tps and of course A/f.

 

I just got my EBL in the mail and I don't have a clue where to start.

 

Go onto dynamicefi.com and read through the intro to tuning part 1 and 2. That should help you get started once you have it wired up and installed. If you need help with the installation then we are going to need to know what your installing it in/what ecm your replacing it with/and what ebl you have(Flash,P4,etc)

 

Grab some popcorn and a coke and read the Intro to Tuning pages here:

www.dynamicefi.com/Tune_Intro.php
www.dynamicefi.com/Tune_Intro2.php

In part 2 setting up a new calibration is covered. With the Vortec heads using the EBL_F_3000.bin calibration is a good starting point. Use the EBL Utility to calculate the BPC table values and drop them into the calibration.

Plug the EBL ECM into the harness and fire up the WUD on the laptop. Get it connected so with key-on, engine-off you are getting data. Can review part 1 to connect and operate the WUD.

Now check the TPS sensor and MAP sensor for proper readings. Hook up a timing light and tighten the distributor bolt enough to hold it, but just loose enough that you can turn it by hand.

Start a data log, hold your breath, and turn the key. Once running check the timing, should be around 20* BTDC. Adjust as required. Once the engine is warmed up can run it with the EST/BYPASS open and set the base timing to the same as the calibration (likely 6* BTDC), this value: SA - Initial SA

Key-off, reconnect EST/BYPASS, start a VE Learn, start engine and if it runs OK drive around a bit.

Note that there is more documentation installed on your laptop. See the EBL Flash Program Group for the help files (3 of them).

RBob.

 

I have some questions on IAT/CTS blending since i can't find too much info on this..
Where is that I/C blend value used and where is only CTS value used? Flag ICbAE must be on for AE/DE it says, but what about other operation modes??
e.g. Open Loop - AFR Multiplier vs CTS
I was a bit stumped to find that above mentioned flag is off/reset by default on the 2016 L03 F template bin, since they all have an IAT?

As said I'm using the L69 HO style cowl hood induction (formula hood) for some colder air. IAT varies quite a bit over CTS, and in most cases won't rise over 70% of CTS.

So that cooler IATs would result in some additional fueling i'd expect, but... would that reflect in the commanded AFRs? Or just the resulting AFRs, with the PW reflecting compensation for the cooler IAT or blend values - that would mean the commanded AFR stays the same but is actually reached. Whereas the same target AFR would not be reached when the IAT is not compensated for. Does that seem legit?

I've had some problems fine-tuning AE/DE/PE and my head is hurting now lol.. just soo many parameters to play with.

 

The blended CTS/IAT value is used in the main fueling calculation for the inverse temperature term. It is also used for the CTS/IAT spark advance compensation. Which is neutral in the supplied calibrations (bias and table both set to 10* (9.84* actually).

The CTS/IAT value can be used for AE & DE with the option flag set.

> So that cooler IATs would result in some additional fueling i'd expect, but...
> would that reflect in the commanded AFRs?

No to it changing the commanded AFR, yes to a lower IAT making the PW larger.

RBob.

 

Hey Rbob.

I just bought the EBL for my car, and it starts and runs great... but It wont idle below 1400rpm. I start it and run it through open loop and closed loop. No matter what it will not run below 1400rpm.

When its running my IAC is at 0 steps, ive checked and checked and checked for intake leaks, my throttle screw is not touching the throttle plates at all. My TPS reads 0. Idle in the tune is set for 750 or so. But no matter what it wont go below 1400ish. I can rev it up and its fine and smooth, at 1400rpm it runs like a top. But i cannot for the life of me get to idle any lower.

I dont know how to post my log, but Im running a 350 with the corvette aluminum tpi heads, a comp cams TPI cam, Reworked intake, heads, 58mm throttle body, headers, cold air intake, etc... Im using the P4 ecm, and i used your 350ci tpi aluminum heads calibration, and it works perfectly.

Except it wont idle... I will be trying a new map sensor tonight... Any thoughts?

 

Hmm, so the main fueling calculation I suppose excludes the AE, DE, PE modes, taking the flag description into account. I don't know the fueling formula but i guess the inverse temp term is referring to the necessity for more fuel (more PW) at lower temperatures. Is that used in both OL and CL?

When a table says CTS in TunerPro, does it really refer to CTS only or the blended value?

 

What's the spark advance when it's at "idle" ?

 

IAC may be bad, the PCV valve could be passing too much air. Note that the IAC steps is a commanded value, not the actual. If you short A & B on the ALDL connector and do a key-on, engine-off, the ECM will continuously step the IAC closed.

If the IAC is out of the TB and the pintle is not retained it will step out and shoot across the garage. Just to be aware of that if you try the above with the IAC removed. Can reverse two of the wires in the IAC connector to step it back together.

RBob.

 

PW calculation:

PW = BPC * MAP * ~T * ~AFR * VE * BLM * DE * DFCO

In closed loop there is also the closed loop correction term (INT & prop gains). The injector compensations are also always done to the PW value.

AE is handled separately and may be added to the sync PW or handled as async fueling.

PE mode changes the ~AFR, which makes it richer.

Just CTS, with the exception of AE & DE when the for-mentioned option flag is set.

RBob.

 

So im thinking about ordering one of these in the future but quick question, Are you able to remove the speed limiter using this?

 

ah, i guess i could have come up with something at the search by trying PW calculation instead of "fuel calculation" or "fueling.." thanks!

so any table that actually uses the blended value will say "IAT/CTS" except for the AE/DE calculations when mentioned flag is set?
why would you not take the blended value into account for AE/DE anyways btw?

Thanks again!
Andi

@dairy:
reprogramming/removing the various speed or rpm limiters is almost not even worth mentioning among the (sometimes overwhelming) wealth of functionality the EBL comes with

 

If the engine is using the stock style TBI intake it is fully water jacketed. The intake air temperature won't have much affect. If it also has the stock heated air cleaner, then even less affect. Trucks don't have an IAT.

The option is there to use CTS/IAT for AE & DE for versatility. The EBL systems are being used on a multitude of different vehicles. From 3rd gens, to jeeps with AMC & GM engines, to Mopars to trucks to boats. All with different requirements.

RBob.

 

Just to add to the above, my EBL is installed in a rock buggy, controlling a GM TBI on top of a Ford smallblock, with a bastard-child distributor. Works great from the moment I wired it up. My biggest problem has been that I can't drive it on the street to self-learn, so I "have to" take it out four-wheeling. It's a difficult sacrifice.

 

Hey guys ... have been on here now for quite some time .... reading and learning all that you all have taken the time to post .... and for that .... I wanna say Thanks a big bunch ...

Started tuning just a month or so ago .... and with the help of this group and advise from RBob, am about ready to finally go to CL and final adjustments to my VE tables... then it's off to PE (though I've been sneaking in there just a bit) and then beginning on the SA tables ...

Am posting up the latest .dat and associated .bin for anyone who might have a minute or two to take a look at ..... am looking for comments and open to recommendations ... Please note, I have not smoothed VE tables at all as yet, as it seems to be more production to let the learn process evolve as it will .... I know at some point that will need to be done, at least to some degree .... I'll usually do a little after a half dozen learns / .dats ... doing lots of evaluating during the process .....

My engine
355 cu in CFI
2" TB 90# matched Injectors 20# FP
Dart Pro1 Heads 64/180
Compression at 9.7
Lunati Hydraulic Roller Tappet Camshaft, LUN-60112
Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift 231
Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift 239
Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio 0.535 in. (1.6 Comp Pro Roller Rockers)
Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio 0.550 in.
Lobe Separation (degrees) 110
Tyi-Y Headers (custom exhaust with short CobraPacks)
700R4 with 2600rpm TC 355 gear

Thoughts ???? and thanks .......... hal

 

Cool beans, adding a Ford engine to the list... Many times I have no idea of what the EBL Flash ECMs are being used on. I just support the folks using them.

RBob.

 

Still on the rich side. Also need to reduce the AE. Do some quick testing of the higher load and RPM areas. Just to be sure that there is enough fuel.

Do some VE Learns via the WB. Note that the VE LEarn has smoothing built into it.

RBob.

 

Are you running 52% ethanol fuel?

RBob.

 

Hey thanks RBob .... All learns thus far have been WB / CL Smoothing 5
Will go back to original AE settings from original .bin (EBL_F_TB2.BIN)
Note at 13:27 on the dump ... TPS at 100% RPM 34k (ish) MAP 94 DC% 57 WB in the 11s >>>

Appears to be getting what we need as still on the rich side in multiple areas ... Hoping by going back or original AE the Low Map Error will go away ... (it wasn't a problem back then)
oh yeah .... running 91 octane pump gas ..... (( interesting questions )) )
Thanks for taking the time ......

 

The stoich AFR in the BIN is set to 12.0

The VE tables need a lot of work, likely the cam & heads are causing this.

So far the DC% is OK, saw it at 57% at about 4K RPM. But it wasn't fully WOT.

RBob.

 

My thought on stoich AFR is related to the overlap on the cam .... may have gone to far. Will pull that back to 13

Yeah, VE tables are a mess .... will do some manual smoothing to the extreme spike areas and will continue to run some learns and will post new results.

Can i use 8 smoothing during the learn function at this point to help with that some (current setting at 5) ???

Again, your assist is appreciated ...... hal

 

The stoich AFR is just the starting point for the PW calculation when in closed loop. The ECM targets the O2 windows values via O2 sensor feedback. See the Fueling Logic paper in the Tuning Guide Book sticky, chapter 5, 8063/7747/8746 ECM.

Going too high on the smoothing factor with uneven VE tables can undo changes.

RBob.

 

Hello fellow hot rodders. I recently purchased a '92 RS with the L03 engine. We use the car for drag racing on an 1/8 mile track in a 10.0 or slower class for teens. My question is this. Is there anyone in the area of Skyview Drags in Tioga county, N.Y. that has ECM tunning knowlage. I am a dinosaur when it comes to computers and really need some help.

 

@92 tr car

Even a dinosaur can learn new technology. This is where you start - you have to read this thread:

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tbi/...check-out.html

The TBI system that fuels LO3 in your '92 is very simple EFI system, but you have to understand basics, know the lingo before you can 'dive' into it.

//RF

 

imho it can be hard to fully understand EFI tuning when not involved in computers, control systems or the like.

... and sure doing a great job at that
Thanks on your pointer reg the IAT/CTS stuff. After reading what you said it makes complete sense when thinking about the heated TB. And yeah sure it considers various different applications.. maybe the EBL is like the so-called swiss universal army knife of EFI i guess

 

OK - Ok - I should be so mean on a Monday morning. A very basic EFI primer, with lots of pictures can be found here:
http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h20.pdf
Yes, it is slightly different from TBI, but covers basics very well and has plenty of figures.

//RF

 

Looking for some help....
Just set up EBL, replaced injectors, added fuel pressure gage, and tapped into TPS 5 volt and ground for the fuel pressure gage. New diaphram in the regulator, and added adjustable regulator cap. Getting 46psi fuel pressure on key up, but now I have a different problem...

Running 350 MAP TPI with auto, #24lb injectors (no 9th injector), EGR plated over, using the P4_3005.bin with EBL... (I adjusted the 22# to 24#)

Very hard starting, rough idle, and when I key it up I get 33/34 codes(one yellow square), once I finaly get it running, then it trips the SES for code 33(two or three yellow squares).
I noticed the TPS % is at 0 on idle, however when I check the voltage, it reads between .58-.6V at idle??? It looks like I have sufficent vacuum, 47-48Kpa at idle... anyone want to review my datalog please??? You'll see it stall once or maybe twice during the datalog, as its pretty hard to keep running.

Thanks, trying to troubleshoot these codes is a bit daunting to say the least... I did confirm I have 5 volts supplied to both the TPS / MAP at the connector (checked with meter across A/C pins), oh and IAC seems to be functioning ok, It has ~20 steps at idle, but fluctuates as the motor stumbles.

 

how many ve learns have you done ? `it looks like mine did on first up after installing . a done a couple ve learns an idle an that hepled . then i done sun at light idle an low dc volts an pregressive did more an more to get it where it runs great an idles great . i must have 50 ve learns stored in my lap top . good luck

 

I understand the rough idle may be due to no VE learns yet, and I can do that, I'm now wondering about the SES codes 33/34 at key on, and 33 after it idles....

 

http://www.iroczone.com/2009/10/1982...maro-firebird/

 

Use the WUD's Diagnostic display for observing the actual sensor values. With the active MAP high malfunction the ECM is creating a MAP value via the engines RPM and TPS (N-Alpha). This is what is being shown on the main WUD display.

The MAP errors need to be fixed before you can do VE Learns. Check that the sensor connector is plugged in, and that the vacuum line is on full time manifold vacuum.

First column is an active error, second column controls the SES, third column is stored codes.

> I noticed the TPS % is at 0 on idle, however when I
> check the voltage, it reads between .58-.6V at idle???

This is correct. The TPS percentage is based on the lowest seen voltage. The .58 volts will be 0% TPS as that is the lowest the ECM has seen since key-on.

You can grab the malfunction little box by the title bar and drag it over so it is not in top of the WUD display. Same with the bank switching display.

I'll get to the data logs in a bit and email back to you.

RBob.

 

The only thing i can think of is when i tapped into the TPS +5v / ground, I may have done something wrong, or the guy that did the wireharness may have TPS & MAP tied together. i'm going to try and check it against the wire diagram with my meter (in this 100degree heat )

Freaky - thanks for the codes Website i think im going to save those on my laptop for future reference... I searched several times and didnt come up with that one

 

The +5v is basically just a voltage 'supply', and the computer reads based off that. If the TPS is going to read about 0-1% at idle because it's closed. If I remember right, the target is near the 58-.6V you measured. While it may not be 'exact', it shouldn't cause errors. I had about the same readings on my 454 TBI originally, but it turns out my throttle shaft bore is a little worn (getting a slightly high idle and sticky throttle opening).

 

Thanks, I understand the +5v, however I'm grasping a bit as to what's going on...
I replayed a datalog which I ran June 10th (before starting to pull the intake apart to add adjustable fuel reg / diaphram / fuel pressure gage / injectors), just to see if there were any errors at 33/34, and there were none. Something has changed before / after the teardown to cause the errors/SES???

Any other things I can check??? I took today off to get this back together, and I'm stalled out...

I went back and confirmed the MAP / TPS / IAC are all wired correctly, and not using spliced +5V / grounds. Checked pin # at the ECU connector out to the pin on the sensor connector. Summary... its wired correctly
TPS -
A5 - +5v to MAP has good continuity from ecu to connector, and is not tied to A4 (TPS +5v)
B6 - grnd to map has good continuity from ecu to connector, and is not tied to B5 (TPS grnd)
F15 from ECU to MAP has good continuity from ecu to connector, and not tied to F13 (TPS signal)
TPS -
B5 has good continuity from ecu to connector, and is not tied to B6 (MAP Ground)
A5 has good continuity from ecu to connector, and is not tied to A4 (MAP +5v)
F13 has good continuity from ecu to connector, and is not tied to F15 (MAP signal)
IAC - A goes to E3 / B to E4 / C to E5 / D to E6 (all good continuity)

 

i don't know if this could be your problem but i had a bad vacum hose to the map senser once . it had cracks but you couldn't see the untill you unhooked the line an bent it then they showed up . another thought could be a cracked map senser ... just shootingyou ideas ... hope you find the problem

when mine did this it sounded like it had a big cam an was running pig rich an would hesitate trying to take offf then rumn rick constantly ...

 

Having trouble flashing from new computer. Been running ebl for about 3 years,had computer problems and bought new laptop. I have wud screen working and taking data.

I also changed the ftdi latency setting to 10 as described.

Problem is when i go to flash i get a failure. New laptop is a hp running windows7 home. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, Tim

 

theres somting the the device manger that needs inabled to get it to reconize the serial cable adapter . i sorry i can't rember the name . but i rember i had to inabl sumthing in there . it has to reconize th USB-to-serial adapter cable